Why can we service our own regulators?

[ams511]

Different market place. In the UK vehicles over 3 years old require an annual inspection called an MOT, most people get their cars serviced at the same. I reckon the number of people who do their own vehicle oil changes in the UK at under 5%. Dive shops in Germany certainly don't seem to have suffered.

The scuba manufacturers want their authorized dealers to do the service. If parts were sold openly some people would DIY while others would take it to a service center which may not be a dealer. I have owned automobiles since the 1980s and never had a dealer do an oil change. Most were DIY while others were done by an oil change business.

Vehicle inspection laws vary from state to state but in Pennsylvania you just took the car to an inspection station and if something needed replacing you had them do it or you could take it elsewhere. These stations are not usually dealers. Again the manufacturers want the users of their gear to an authorized dealer for service.

 

[halocline]

With the cost of a new HOG regulator set at $170, why even bother servicing a reg? Buying a new HOG every two years costs about the same as two annual services.

Well, I use a MK5 that I paid about $30 for and a pair of MK10s that I paid about $40 each for, plus 2nd stages that I paid about $25 for, all of these regs are very high quality and will last me the rest of my life. I service them myself for about $5 in parts every few years. I did spend about $150 on tools. So for me owning regulators is very inexpensive, I own several, and they are very high performance regulators. But it's also a hobby, it's enjoyable for me to work on these things and to think about them from a performance and design perspective.

The hardest part is remembering when the last time I serviced a particular reg was. Since I keep a close watch on their performance, I can usually anticipate a slight reduction in performance that tells me it's time to rebuild. I also always travel with a spare, because any regulator, cheap, expensive, old, new, whatever, is simply a mechanical device and can fail unexpectedly.

---------- Post added June 7th, 2014 at 08:12 AM ----------

A regulator is indeed a very simple device... however, it has been uber-engineered to do what it does. How many of you would not give a second thought about using a regulator that your buddy, with no training whatsoever, serviced for you?

I don't know about the 'uber-engineered' part, but yes they are simple devices. As far as diving with a regulator serviced by a buddy, in my case I have done this several times, but I guess the answer is 'depends on the buddy'. At least with a buddy you know the person involved; at a dive shop you frequently don't even know who does the work.

The other thing is that any diver who puts his life in his regulator's hands (so to speak) is taking a big risk. This is why ALL dive training has redundancy, usually in the form of a buddy, as a primary requirement for safe diving. Regulator failure is never life threatening unless you are diving un-safely.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I have no idea why you hate Scubapro so much. For second stages you can use generic seats and o-rings. For the first stages, MK-2, 3, 5, 7, 10 can use generic parts, the others need kits but if you watch you can purchase them for the same price as Aqualung and Apeks. Also given a two year service interval, even if you need to spend an extra $10 on a first stage kit that is only $5 a year which is nothing.

I don't hate the actual regs that Scubapro makes, I just hate the company and I have very valid reasons to.
I own a MK5 and several 109's/156
I love those older regs, very classy and breathe velvet smooth.
My problem with scubapro has to do with the way they do business and their arrogance. What about the rumors of them holding their "authorized" retailers at MAP pricing but then sliding unsold mechandise out the back door to grey marketers in Europe for pennies on the dollar only to return here to the US in the form of discounted merchandise through online discounters. Whether they had anything to do with it we will probably never know, but how could merchadise be sold that cheap to Europeans then resold back to the American grey market and still be retailed 25 to 35% cheaper that an "authorized" dealer can sell it. Something is rotten in Denmark. My suspicion is it never even went to Europe, it went straight to the online discounters. I think they were just blaming the Europeans as a cover up.

Or what about the crap I went through with just trying to get friggin' cover for a G200B and getting the whole runaround with service intervals and them holding that over my head as to why they wouldn't sell me the parts I needed. Then getting charged on top of it and getting nothing in return. It turns out all they were trying to do was to get me to drop another $300 on a new second stage.
And yes, it pisses me off that they won't sell me parts for my newer SP stuff. If I new then when I bought the stuff what I know now I never would have bought it.
If anybody asks me what new regs to buy I tell them which ones not to buy first and SP is at the top of the list.
I also think they are rediculously overpriced for what they are, but if somebody is dumb enough to fall for the whole FPFL joke and think they are getting what they're paying for then I suppose they deserve to get raped.

 

[Rich Keller]

The early Scubapro regs are very good but the regs they make now are just average, you just pay more for them and the people running the company now are worthless. The only special tool I need to work on the MK3, MK5, R108HP and R109 is an IP gauge. If you are going to buy a new reg get a HOG and then take their repair training class.

PS: I always hear a number of people say in these discussions that you should not do your own repairs because it is "life support equipment". To me it is not just life support equipment, it is MY life support equipment and I am the one ultimately responsible for my own safety so I do my own repairs.

 

[ams511]

My problem with scubapro has to do with the way they do business and their arrogance. What about the rumors of them holding their "authorized" retailers at MAP pricing but then sliding unsold mechandise out the back door to grey marketers in Europe for pennies on the dollar only to return here to the US in the form of discounted merchandise through online discounters.

Or what about the crap I went through with just trying to get friggin' cover for a G200B and getting the whole runaround with service intervals and them holding that over my head as to why they wouldn't sell me the parts I needed. And yes, it pisses me off that they won't sell me parts for my newer SP stuff.

Scubapro's business practices are par for the dive industry. There is nothing unusual about them holding dealers to MAP pricing and not selling parts, all the other major players such as Aqualung, Oceanic, Sherwood, Atomic have similar policies.

As for the Leisurepro pricing my understanding is this. Before Leisurepro became an authorized dealer, they would source their products from both the US and abroad. Shops would sell the product to LP basically at a bit above cost because it would boost their sales and earn a discount with Scubapro. From the pricing literature I have seen the mark-up on regulators is 100% so a $400 regulator sells at $200 wholesale. In Europe the wholesale price would be cheaper because SP would eat part of the VAT tax and if purchased for export then no VAT tax is charged. Leisurepro is currently not an Aqualung dealer and does the same thing.

The whole saga of the G200B cover seems to be dive shop BS, not Scubapro. Your G200B uses the same case as a G250 so those covers would fit also.

Again, Scubapro is not the only company that offers FPFL, in fact most if not all of the major players do.

If you criticize SP for these things then you should criticize all of the major dive gear players.

---------- Post added June 8th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ----------

If anybody asks me what new regs to buy I tell them which ones not to buy first and SP is at the top of the list.
I also think they are rediculously overpriced for what they are, but if somebody is dumb enough to fall for the whole FPFL joke and think they are getting what they're paying for then I suppose they deserve to get raped.

You would be giving them bad advice. Again, Scubapro regs sell for about the same price as the other major players sell theirs for and if you watch eBay you will see that the resale value on SP regs are higher than most of their competitors products that sold for a similar price when new.

 

[drbill]

Heck, I have no problem having my local reliable tech service my regs even though I could do it myself (with some additional training). However, wgen I rebuilt my jeep engine, I put the distriubutor on 180 degrees out of phase so it belched flame through the carburetor and when I rebuilt my boat engine, the boat sank a short time after being launched. I'll stick with the local tech!

 

[Mike126]

What's the argument for not allowing the everyday diver to service his/her own regulator?

I have to imagine, though I'm not a lawyer, that if a shop or manufacturer fixed or rebuilt your regulator and then some catastrophe occurred and injury or death was the result it would be very hard to prove that it wasn't user error or lack of upkeep. This would absolve the repair shop of any wrong doing. In the end I'm sure they are not liable.

If the manufacturers don't want the market flooded with user repaired regs I could understand that, but who's to say that everyone who sells one keep up with maintenance. Either way the market will have bad regs in it either from user upkeep or in properly serviced regs. Not every dive shop can fix it right every time.

Diving is not the only high risk sport I participate in and in all others you as a user of equipment are required to maintain it. I like this because I know exactly how my equipment functions and it's strengths and weaknesses and I address them as I see fit.

The construction and operation of regulators are not overly complicated. There are much easier mistakes to make in diving if your not on your toes.

The reason I bring this up is my Atomic reg has been rebuilt twice this year and both times the leaks were attributed to improper installation. The other issue is the $20 in parts and $80 to install.

Thoughts?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Ryan, Ryan, Ryan.... You silly boy! Don't you know that if you service your own SCUBA gear you will die???? I thought we taught you better than that.

By the way, does any one know of a qualified tech that is certified to change the AA batteries in my backup light?

 

[J_Rod]

Heck, I have no problem having my local reliable tech service my regs even though I could do it myself (with some additional training). However, wgen I rebuilt my jeep engine, I put the distriubutor on 180 degrees out of phase so it belched flame through the carburetor and when I rebuilt my boat engine, the boat sank a short time after being launched. I'll stick with the local tech!

Just serviced my A700...had No Name Pub Pizza and belched flame through the exhaust T.

 

[redacted]

Heck, I have no problem having my local reliable tech service my regs even though I could do it myself (with some additional training). However, wgen I rebuilt my jeep engine, I put the distriubutor on 180 degrees out of phase so it belched flame through the carburetor and when I rebuilt my boat engine, the boat sank a short time after being launched. I'll stick with the local tech!

So, what did you do to fix it? SH, but the question then is how you handle it. I rebuilt a Toyota truck engine after snapping a timing chain. Ended up installing the cam shaft with the crank set on TDC exhaust rather than TDC compression. Thought about it over a couple more beers and knew it was more work than I wanted to reset the cam shaft. Considered rotating the distributor 180 but not enough room. One more beer and I decided to shift the spark plug wires 180.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

So, what did you do to fix it? SH, but the question then is how you handle it. I rebuilt a Toyota truck engine after snapping a timing chain. Ended up installing the cam shaft with the crank set on TDC exhaust rather than TDC compression. Thought about it over a couple more beers and knew it was more work than I wanted to reset the cam shaft. Considered rotating the distributor 180 but not enough room. One more beer and I decided to shift the spark plug wires 180.

See? This is another classic example of the Third Rule Of Mechanics:

Beer makes everything better!

Best wishes.