DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[James79]

If you pay for instruction and fill the requirements no GUE instructor is going to withhold your certification if that's what you mean. GUE HQ takes instructor complaints very seriously.

Part of my concern is that there are reports of the requirements including buy in to the philosophy. In the thread referred to by @drrich2 a GUE evangelist described in the things one should expect out of GUE courses that being evaluated on your intent to follow GUE philosophy after the course is part of it. Not a detractor saying it's a problem, slamming GUE...... A GUE diver praising it as an expected part of the course. Hard to pass courses due to objective performance standards, that I can understand. Including philosophical views on diving/buy in or intent to always follow just those procedures as a subjective evaluation... that I can't agree with. To be fair, I am saying all of this as an outsider with only what I see discussed on SB for reference.

I doubt I will ever take a GUE course... but will continue to watch the videos and otherwise glean what I can from them. My participation in this thread is all meant in response to the OP's original question. I am not, and probably will not ever be a GUE diver. I am interested in what GUE does because I am not arrogant enough to completely discount a source of techniques and viewpoints just because I don't "drink the Kool-Aid", lol.

Best,

James

 

[LiteHedded]

Attorney retainer to sue Dean - $5,000
Lost income from three days in Florida - $4,500
Airline ticket to Florida - $750
Hotel room for three days in Florida - $600
Rental car - $300
Not dealing with the cost and hassle - priceless

Police are worthless. They just tell you file a claim with your insurance company because they're not going to do anything.

I love this thread. When faced with facts about serious problems within their organization, the GUE folks either
1. Ignore the facts
2. Deny the facts
3. Blame the victim

That tells you everything you need to know about GUE.

1200 bucks is small claims friend. It would cost you about 40 bucks.

when you called gue and told them you were robbed by an instructor what did they do? Hang up on you? Genuinely curious how they handled it. He hasn’t been an instructor for like 15 years so maybe they did something on their end I dunno

 

[Manatee Diver]

I get that the bad apples are probably few (ish), but the aggressive defense of GUE insinuating that any bad experience must be the student's fault leaves me unwilling to roll those dice. If I pay for instruction, and meet the standards, I expect to receive the proof of successful completion. If I fail to meet the standards, of course I won't expect a proof of completion I didn't earn. I will not risk "you did it all fine, but you're not into the philosophy enough."

This more of an issue of continued access to that particular GUE community if caught non-DIR diving after certification. And in that area they control access to the only active tech boat.

GUE HQ largely doesn't care about what non-instructors do outside of GUE projects.

 

[LiteHedded]

I will DM




The only context I am omitting is to avoid naming people or groups explicitly in a public forum.

Further training was contingent on a full commitment to the configuration even when not diving with GUE members. I suspect I would also have been expected to not dive with non GUE members but that is an ASSumption.

Why keep the name a secret, what’s the big deal? The other guy just publicly accused someone of a felony your thing sounds much more chill.

I don’t even know what a “non gue” configuration is anymore now that they’re all doing sidemount and ccr

 

[lostsheep]

Why keep the name a secret, what’s the big deal?

Because I consider this person my friend despite my disdain for some of the old school antics.

Edit: I also consider them to be an excellent instructor and don’t regret the money I’ve spent with them.

I’m not going to flame them publicly.

I mention it here because I honestly wish this **** would stop.

 

[scubadada]

Sometimes, parts of scuba diving seem like religion. Nobody is required to participate, you can hold and practice your own beliefs. That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn about other people's beliefs, it might make you a more educated, broader individual. You might end up changing some of your beliefs and practices. For many years I dived a short hose first and an Air 2. Quite a few years ago, I quietly switched to a 40" primary and a short hose, bungeed second. I don't care how others dive and don't discuss any of my dive practices unless someone specifically asks.

Go diving.

 

[lostsheep]

"Sanity" breath may help.

Breathe in, breathe out.

No amount of breathing in and out is going to bring my sanity back after the amount of molten lead I’ve played around with

 

[LiteHedded]

Because I consider this person my friend despite my disdain for some of the old school antics.

Edit: I also consider them to be an excellent instructor and don’t regret the money I’ve spent with them.

I’m not going to flame them publicly.

I mention it here because I honestly wish this **** would stop.

Fair enough.

Whoever it is sounds ridiculous. The best thing about being a black belt and not needing more classes is not dealing with the instructors anymore

 

[Lorenzoid]

When the example above is made (trying to be the bigger man and not name names/shops), he gets a thinly veiled accusation of lying:

I most certainly did not mean my comment (that it's common for GUE divers in Mexico to use SM in their exploration work) to imply I believed @lostsheep was "lying." I was pointing to the part of Lostsheep's sentence that briefly referred to "SM" and remarked that we're not hearing the whole conversation that Lostsheep had with the GUE instructor as it relates to that issue. (I know nothing about GUE's stance on rebreathers, so I have no opinion on the other bit in that sentence.)

Part of my concern is that there are reports of the requirements including buy in to the philosophy. In the thread referred to by @drrich2 a GUE evangelist described in the things one should expect out of GUE courses that being evaluated on your intent to follow GUE philosophy after the course is part of it. Not a detractor saying it's a problem, slamming GUE...... A GUE diver praising it as an expected part of the course. Hard to pass courses due to objective performance standards, that I can understand. Including philosophical views on diving/buy in or intent to always follow just those procedures as a subjective evaluation... that I can't agree with. To be fair, I am saying all of this as an outsider with only what I see discussed on SB for reference.

We really would need to see exactly how this supposed "buy-in philosophy" question is phrased, and how the student's (or prospective student's) reply to it is phrased. In Fundies, a question we got at the end of the course--in a written course evaluation sheet, I believe--was whether you "consider yourself a GUE diver." There was no other discussion before, during or after the course that I can recall that related to this idea of buying in. I believe the course evaluation had no effect on a student's outcome in the course.

Now, it seems to me that it shows closed-mindedness if a student or prospective student takes a defiant stance at the beginning or during the course, like declaring "Unless I'm diving with GUE people who demand I dive the GUE way, then I'm going to do whatever I want to do, like dive sidemount or use whatever rebreather, GUE's philosophies be damned." At the Fundies level, as I see it, all the instructor asks (at least as I interpreted what I was being asked) is that you take the course with an open mind. After Fundies, think it over and then dive how you believe is right for you. Sure, if you then want to take GUE Cave 1 or Tech 1, you will need to dive the way that is expected--and you should probably approach those courses with an open mind as well. If you have not bought into the GUE system by the time you're ready for Cave 1 or Tech 1, why would you want to take those courses anyway?

I can certainly see the situation in which experienced divers who have stuck with GUE for a long time are ready to move on to rebreathers (or some other advanced aspect of diving) and decide they don't like GUE's stance on it. I can't see anything wrong with that, and if you have earned your stripes in the diving community, I can't imagine anyone will look down on you. It actually seems quite likely to me that at some point a diver may choose to take a different path. I know of a few who have reached a fork in the road and deviated from GUE. For some, it may be right after Fundies. For others, it may be when they're ready for a rebreather. But until then, at each course level along the way, the diver at least approached the relevant GUE philosophy with an open mind. If that's all that "buying in" means, what's wrong with that?

If you want to dive with others who want to adhere strictly to the GUE way of diving, then I guess you'd need to dive that way. You just don't have to announce to the world that you secretly solo dive in the evenings. I don't think that keeping things to yourself is the same as lying, or that you will be tormented by feeling you are forced to bite your tongue. In everyday life, do we always say exactly what we're thinking, or do we take into account what we're trying to accomplish and filter our thoughts as needed? Stating defiantly at the outset what you plan to do that you know is contrary to GUE's philosophies seems to me like the former.

 

[lostsheep]

I dive a lot of different setups because I like to tinker. When I dive OC doubles my setup is almost identical to how it was configured in fundies with the only exception being 2 computers instead of 1 computer and 1 compass. I’m totally fine diving this rig when diving with my GUE buddies who prefer I do so.

I didn’t defiantly state anything, I was asked a direct question about my level of commitment and reticence has never been my strong suit.