DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[Manatee Diver]

There's probably some context here that we're not getting. GUE recognizes SM is a useful tool; it's just not their default configuration. Most GUE divers doing exploration projects in Mexico do it in sidemount.

This is outside Kiril and the team of GUE Cave SM divers here in Florida.

It’s always some mystery instructor.

I assure you, NONE of those guys are looking to turn down anyone’s money.

Honestly now that I know the area I can believe it, knowing the reputation of the GUE community in that area.

But that area IMO is an exception. I know the Cave Country and Mexican GUE communities don't have that issue.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I’ve never known one of those guys to turn away a buck from anyone.

Does that include doing some basic CCR drills in a non GUE configuration ?

 

[Wibble]

Do you need a DM too cause you’re kinda calling me a liar. Do I have to screen shot our messages for you?

"Sanity" breath may help.

Breathe in, breathe out.

 

[Doc Harry]

You got robbed for 1200 dollars and it wasn’t worth the hassle?

Attorney retainer to sue Dean - $5,000
Lost income from three days in Florida - $4,500
Airline ticket to Florida - $750
Hotel room for three days in Florida - $600
Rental car - $300
Not dealing with the cost and hassle - priceless

Police are worthless. They just tell you file a claim with your insurance company because they're not going to do anything.

I love this thread. When faced with facts about serious problems within their organization, the GUE folks either
1. Ignore the facts
2. Deny the facts
3. Blame the victim

That tells you everything you need to know about GUE.

 

[PfcAJ]

Does that include doing some basic CCR drills in a non GUE configuration ?

Are you asking for them to coach you on CCR drills in a configuration that they aren’t familiar with?

Sounds smart.

 

[rddvet]

Attorney retainer to sue Dean - $5,000
Lost income from three days in Florida - $4,500
Airline ticket to Florida - $750
Hotel room for three days in Florida - $600
Rental car - $300
Not dealing with the cost and hassle - priceless

Police are worthless. They just tell you file a claim with your insurance company because they're not going to do anything.

I love this thread. When faced with facts about serious problems within their organization, the GUE folks either
1. Ignore the facts
2. Deny the facts
3. Blame the victim

That tells you everything you need to know about GUE.

I think that's your impression because you have a pre-existing opinion about GUE and don't want to see it any other way.
As far as blaming the victim, your story sounds like there's way more to it that we're not being told and a bit hard to swallow. Nobody's blaming the victim. You're saying someone stole from you and you did nothing. Again sounds fishy. And yes I read your mental math. Which is just what it is. Does it really require $5000 to retain a lawyer? Absolutely not. You can get a lawyer to write a threateningly worded letter for a few hundo. Then if it needs to go further then that it may cost you. But you're just trying to justify your response here with a bunch of numbers pulled out of your rear relief valve.
If you don't like GUE, why waste your time arguing about it here.

 

[James79]

I had inquired about GUE training beyond the fundies I’ve already done. I was asked if I would commit to the DIR setup. My response was that I would fully comply when diving with GUE folks but that when I wasn’t I’d be doing whatever I want (I.e., SM or Choptima.)

Verbatim from a GUE instructor , “that’s going to be a problem.”

So, above we have an example of the "Kool-Aid" concern many of us have happening. While I admit that I see many "GUE haters" on here that attack GUE for it's own sake, there are also many "GUE defenders" that are just as extreme in it's defense. The usual defenses being "that's the old crowd, we don't do that anymore" or "It's all just hater hearsay." When the example above is made (trying to be the bigger man and not name names/shops), he gets a thinly veiled accusation of lying:

It’s always some mystery instructor.

I assure you, NONE of those guys are looking to turn down anyone’s money.

There's probably some context here that we're not getting. GUE recognizes SM is a useful tool; it's just not their default configuration. Most GUE divers doing exploration projects in Mexico do it in sidemount.

Or the "it's just the one guy" defense:

Then you basically talked to an instructor that was an a--hole. That is far from the norm. One of my favorite GUE instructors teaches for multiple agencies besides GUE, teaches sm and ccr (not a gue-jj), doesn't give me grief about solo diving, and really could give a rats rear what people do on their own time. He is not some GUE outlier instructor. He's a well rounded instructor. If GUE told him he could only teach GUE I'm pretty sure he wouldn't comply (but am not speaking for him at al.)

Until he privately lets a GUE defender know the name/area.... where we get this:

Honestly now that I know the area I can believe it, knowing the reputation of the GUE community in that area.

But that area IMO is an exception. I know the Cave Country and Mexican GUE communities don't have that issue.

And this sums up why I am interested in what GUE does (I'll take knowledge and skills from anywhere), but won't risk my hard earned money an (expensive) class with them. I get that the bad apples are probably few (ish), but the aggressive defense of GUE insinuating that any bad experience must be the student's fault leaves me unwilling to roll those dice. If I pay for instruction, and meet the standards, I expect to receive the proof of successful completion. If I fail to meet the standards, of course I won't expect a proof of completion I didn't earn. I will not risk "you did it all fine, but you're not into the philosophy enough."

Respectfully,

James

 

[Wibble]

Can't help but think that the mere existence of this 80 page thread speaks volumes, if for nothing else about the passion generated.

It's good to see that the DIR zealots have largely wound their necks in over the past 5? years. Doesn't do DIR nor agency proponents of that format.

There's no question that DIR did make a great contribution to diving safety. One wonders if it's coming to an end; a pressure group that's largely achieved its goals.

 

[James79]

There's no question that DIR did make a great contribution to diving safety. One wonders if it's coming to an end; a pressure group that's largely achieved its goals.

I know that the depth and passion of the discussions on this forum have led me to look into a lot of it... and adopt much of it (what fits for my situation).

 

[rddvet]

If I pay for instruction, and meet the standards, I expect to receive the proof of successful completion. If I fail to meet the standards, of course I won't expect a proof of completion I didn't earn. I will not risk "you did it all fine, but you're not into the philosophy enough."

Respectfully,

James

If you pay for instruction and fill the requirements no GUE instructor is going to withhold your certification if that's what you mean. GUE HQ takes instructor complaints very seriously.

One thing you need to keep in mind is that GUE classes are very hard to pass on the first try, including for many technical instructors. This does lead to some people getting bent out of shape and not being honest in why they dislike GUE. I can think of 5 guys that talk badly about GUE. All of them either got provisionals on courses or didn't pass at all.

As for your choice to not take a class, obviously that's personal. I recently took Tech 1 but have to go back to finish. I didn't pass the course but I still learned more and gained better skills than any other similar non-GUE class I've taken and passed.