DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[Doc Harry]

Did you call the police?

I see what you're doing
How GUE of you

Not worth the hassle.
I spend more than that on one night at a nice hotel.
It's the principle, which you don't seem to understand.

 

[Wibble]

Most (all?) of which make sense in the context of the organization and the training structure. If you had to make a system that works, on average, good enough and in fact the same from Tech 1 through 400' CCR dives with appropriate bailout, you'd be hard pressed to design something better or more consistent.

I think the context you're missing is that even the training director modifies his system when the "team" standardization calls for it and it is better for the environment. 12+ hour dive in Weeki Wachee? The assistant training director of GUE is in SM bailout, with a long hose under his loop, with a computer. Still no silly helmet though, I promise.

Edit: cave administrator* unsure if training director

Appreciate I’m on a hiding to nothing here…

Most people, 99.9%+, don’t do extreme dives such as 120m/400ft. Same with massive cave exploration pushes. Many people do dive beyond recreational limitations, especially with rebreathers.

I’m questioning whether it’s possible to use a single standard for all dive types including OC and CCR. There’s an enormous difference between OC and CCR diving which requires vastly different procedures and problem solving skills. Even sidemount vs backmount is significantly different (or why would all agencies do separate courses)

Take a "boom" drill. On backmount it’s effectively the shutdown drill, run through the three valves until you’ve isolated the leak, four with the suit inflate. Sidemount is in front of you with two valves.
On CCR there’s the two inverted cylinders for dil and oxygen, the drysuit inflation cylinder, primary bailout (always on), the loop, unit, wing, bailout second stage, BOV, DSV... Then there's all the CCR unit differences…

The point is that the procedures are vastly different depend upon what, where and how you’re diving. Even an OOG donation is different where CCR isn’t taking the reg you’re breathing from, it’s giving up the bailout or possibly the decompression gas if hypoxic.

CCR, with no longhose to worry about — it’s bungeed to the bailout cylinder— frees up the diver's right-hand-side. The RHS can now be used to balance your "stage" cylinders, left and right hand side. Can even keep them streamlined using sidemount techniques, not acting as a snag risk on penetrations. Most people on CCR balance their cylinders left and right as most dives use just one or two bailouts.

Diving CCR — for most people, down to 70m/230ft — is a matter of choosing the right diluent and bailout cylinder(s) appropriate for the depth. Beyond that depth and for extreme cave diving, to which very few people ever venture, requires quite different techniques and planning, possibly even including multiple rebreathers. Again, outside of the "standards". This is why all agencies have a MOD3 course.

DL;DR
Diving procedures, technique and technology evolves.
Techniques vary according to the dive's circumstances.
One size doesn’t fit all.
Extreme dives can barely be compared with "normal" dives.


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edit: tweaks & refinements

 

[LiteHedded]

I see what you're doing
How GUE of you

Not worth the hassle.
I spend more than that on one night at a nice hotel.
It's the principle, which you don't seem to understand.

Lol what. I have nothing to do with gue.

You got robbed for 1200 dollars and it wasn’t worth the hassle?

Then why are you crying about it now? Dean marshall hasn’t taught a gue class in over a decade

 

[Manatee Diver]

My response was that I would fully comply when diving with GUE folks but that when I wasn’t I’d be doing whatever I want (I.e., SM or Choptima.)

Verbatim from a GUE instructor , “that’s going to be a problem.”

I would be very interested in knowing who said that. I know that a prominent GUE instructor has been diving SM for the past couple of weeks between classes.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I would be very interested in knowing who said that.

There's probably some context here that we're not getting. GUE recognizes SM is a useful tool; it's just not their default configuration. Most GUE divers doing exploration projects in Mexico do it in sidemount.

 

[PfcAJ]

I would be very interested in knowing who said that. I know that a prominent GUE instructor has been diving SM for the past couple of weeks between classes.

It’s always some mystery instructor.

I assure you, NONE of those guys are looking to turn down anyone’s money.

 

[lostsheep]

I would be very interested in knowing who said that. I know that a prominent GUE instructor has been diving SM for the past couple of weeks between classes.

I will DM

There's probably some context here that we're not getting. GUE recognizes SM is a useful tool; it's just not their default configuration. Most GUE divers doing exploration projects in Mexico do it in sidemount.

The only context I am omitting is to avoid naming people or groups explicitly in a public forum.

Further training was contingent on a full commitment to the configuration even when not diving with GUE members. I suspect I would also have been expected to not dive with non GUE members but that is an ASSumption.

 

[lostsheep]

It’s always some mystery instructor.

I assure you, NONE of those guys are looking to turn down anyone’s money.

Do you need a DM too cause you’re kinda calling me a liar. Do I have to screen shot our messages for you?

 

[PfcAJ]

Do you need a DM too cause you’re kinda calling me a liar. Do I have to screen shot our messages for you?

I’d like that very much.

I’ve never known one of those guys to turn away a buck from anyone.

 

[rddvet]

I had inquired about GUE training beyond the fundies I’ve already done. I was asked if I would commit to the DIR setup. My response was that I would fully comply when diving with GUE folks but that when I wasn’t I’d be doing whatever I want (I.e., SM or Choptima.)

Verbatim from a GUE instructor , “that’s going to be a problem.”

Then you basically talked to an instructor that was an a--hole. That is far from the norm. One of my favorite GUE instructors teaches for multiple agencies besides GUE, teaches sm and ccr (not a gue-jj), doesn't give me grief about solo diving, and really could give a rats rear what people do on their own time. He is not some GUE outlier instructor. He's a well rounded instructor. If GUE told him he could only teach GUE I'm pretty sure he wouldn't comply (but am not speaking for him at al.)