DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[NDonahue]

You think GUE would OK this setup?


View attachment 735316

You think GUE would OK this setup?


View attachment 735316

Not acceptable. That sidemount bcd has a Y shaped crotch strap and it is well known that only single crotch straps are GUE compliant.

 

[ginti]

And sometimes it doesn’t make sense what gue is doing.

I know divers who were diving a JJ. The did dpv cave in February this year. They had to dive oc. After the training the were doing cave dives with the JJ ccr with the gue instructor.

In October this this year they will do gue cave ccr with the same gue instructor.

Other agencies require ccr cave first. After ccr cave you’re allowed to do dpv cave training with rebreather.

Think that make more sense when the goal is to do cave dives with a rebreather and dpv. If buddy’s still want to follow the gue route, that’s ok for me. I think they learn a lot and become better divers. But I follow another route at another agency for cave diving.

(In the past a buddy of me did dpv cave with double 18 filled with 18/45, stage with 18/45, decogas ean50 and oxygen. They did a deep dive in the Ressel. He was doing the dives he want to do after the course during the course.

Nowadays max depth of dpv cave is 30 meter.)

Hi @barth , there is only one active CCR cave instructor, Kirill***. He is quite high in the organisation's ranks, so I assume what they did in the cave before the course was ok. Maybe it was just a discovery day.

***[At least, he was the only one together with Jarrod some months ago... But I think Jarrod isn't very active any more; maybe in the meantime other instructors started teaching that course, you should double check in the website]

Dpv cave isn't limited to 30m. Only the training dives are.

If you want and can do dpv with an OC configuration, why not? In some shallow cave systems it makes perfectly sense (e.g. Bue Marino in Sardinia).

That said, GUE offers a limited choice for training, especially about rebreathers (a lot of GUE instructors dive rebreathers other than the JJ), and it's perfectly fine if you want to go for a different route - rebreathers or other stuff.

 

[barth]

Hi @barth , there is only one active CCR cave instructor, Kirill***. He is quite high in the organisation's ranks, so I assume what they did in the cave before the course was ok. Maybe it was just a discovery day.

***[At least, he was the only one together with Jarrod some months ago... But I think Jarrod isn't very active any more; maybe in the meantime other instructors started teaching that course, you should double check in the website]

Dpv cave isn't limited to 30m. Only the training dives are.

If you want and can do dpv with an OC configuration, why not? In some shallow cave systems it makes perfectly sense (e.g. Bue Marino in Sardinia).

That said, GUE offers a limited choice for training, especially about rebreathers (a lot of GUE instructors dive rebreathers other than the JJ), and it's perfectly fine if you want to go for a different route - rebreathers or other stuff.

No, it’s not Kiril it’s an gue instructor who is doing a internship for cave ccr.

Doing dpv cave oc doesn’t make sense for me. It’s harder diving a rebreather then diving oc during a dpv dive. With the jj you have to dump gas from drysuit, wing and rebreather.

Trim and bouyancy are easier when diving oc.

Failures with a rebreather are more complicated.

I want to learn planning dpv dives in a cave with a rebreather.

80% of my overhead dives are deeper then 30 meter.

If I’m doing a training I want to learn as much a possible and dive with the equipment I want to use when the course is finished. That was possible with fundamentals, tech 1,cave 2, cave2 and ccr1. But for me it’s not possible with dpv cave.

Dpv cave with oc in my situation feels like dpv cave in openwater.

There was a gue instructor who told me cave 2 + ccr1 is enough for cave diving. There is only a gas calculation you already know.

He was wrong, I did learn a learn a lot during my Iantd ccr cave training.

 

[ginti]

No, it’s not Kiril it’s an gue instructor who is doing a internship for cave ccr.

So he wasn't a GUE CCR cave instructor yet. Still, given the low number of instructors at that level, I still believe that maybe everything was ok

Doing dpv cave oc doesn’t make sense for me. It’s harder diving a rebreather then diving oc during a dpv dive. With the jj you have to dump gas from drysuit, wing and rebreather.

Trim and bouyancy are easier when diving oc.

Failures with a rebreather are more complicated.

I want to learn planning dpv dives in a cave with a rebreather.

80% of my overhead dives are deeper then 30 meter.

If I’m doing a training I want to learn as much a possible and dive with the equipment I want to use when the course is finished. That was possible with fundamentals, tech 1,cave 2, cave2 and ccr1. But for me it’s not possible with dpv cave.

Dpv cave with oc in my situation feels like dpv cave in openwater.

There was a gue instructor who told me cave 2 + ccr1 is enough for cave diving. There is only a gas calculation you already know.

He was wrong, I did learn a learn a lot during my Iantd ccr cave training.

Read again what I wrote I said that it makes perfectly sense to do dpv in OC for certain kind of dives. And I also said that every GUE diver, including instructors, seeks training from other agencies if GUE doesn't provide the right course.

Where is the issue? Why did you say that "dpv in cave doesn't make sense" as a general statement? In your case, a different solution is fine. In other, dpv in oc is fine.

Take it easy

P.S. there are several ways to reach the same goal. For some, dpv in oc is the best even if they want to go with CCR. For some others, it isn't.

 

[arew+4]

TLDR.

I believe the term is rubber necking.

 

[PfcAJ]

No, it’s not Kiril it’s an gue instructor who is doing a internship for cave ccr.

Doing dpv cave oc doesn’t make sense for me. It’s harder diving a rebreather then diving oc during a dpv dive. With the jj you have to dump gas from drysuit, wing and rebreather.

Trim and bouyancy are easier when diving oc.

Failures with a rebreather are more complicated.

I want to learn planning dpv dives in a cave with a rebreather.

80% of my overhead dives are deeper then 30 meter.

If I’m doing a training I want to learn as much a possible and dive with the equipment I want to use when the course is finished. That was possible with fundamentals, tech 1,cave 2, cave2 and ccr1. But for me it’s not possible with dpv cave.

Dpv cave with oc in my situation feels like dpv cave in openwater.

There was a gue instructor who told me cave 2 + ccr1 is enough for cave diving. There is only a gas calculation you already know.

He was wrong, I did learn a learn a lot during my Iantd ccr cave training.

The idea is to learn to use a DPV. That should be done in the simplest and safest config. That’s OC. Once you’re good at it, add the breather.

That’s a totally reasonable and logical position for GUE to take.

 

[barth]

The idea is to learn to use a DPV. That should be done in the simplest and safest config. That’s OC. Once you’re good at it, add the breather.

That’s a totally reasonable and logical position for GUE to take.

People are collecting cards and combine al their cards. If you want to dive with oc it would make sense to do oc dpv training.

If your goal is dpv diving with a rebreather, you should do the training with a rebreather.

I've seen diving gue divers a cave 2 and JJ in caves because a gue instructor told them that's ok. But they are not able to do scr mode with the JJ. Because they did never learnt. They bring oxygen to 50 meter depth so they can use it to plug in when they have an oxygen failure.

Or other GUE cave 2 en CCR 1 divers who are not using inflator hoses at their stages at all.

It's the same with CCR1 and tech 1. GUE ccr divers are allowed to do tech 1 level dives after ccr1 and 25 dives. But they do not even know how to set their perdix in ccr mode and when I told them how they should do the didn't switch setpoint during the dive.

I've seen enough things like that, these kind of things are happening because the never learnt to do the dives, only combining cards.

WIth cave 2 and tech 1 it was possible for me to dive with an unknown diver and do a tech1 or cave 2 dive. That is not possible anymore for me with the JJ.

A person could be a very good oc diver. But he could be a beginner with the rebreather. But if he combine al his cards he can do do cave dive, with dpv and ccr. This is happening a lot of times.

People spent a lot of time and money at gue oc training and believe that the can do the same and more complicated dives with 100 hours or less on the ccr...

If you want to dive with the ccr in caves, you should be able to handle the ccr in caves, choosing oc would be cheating (for me).

 

[barth]

Read again what I wrote

And I also said that every GUE diver, including instructors, seeks training from other agencies if GUE doesn't provide the right course.
.

I do not agree, scr mode is not learnt during gue CCR1. I think it should be required for cavediving with rebreather. I did spent a lot of time during iantd CCR cave at cave planning. I did not learn anything about caveplanning during ccr1.

I know a lot of GUE divers who are doing ccr cave diving without tools (scr mode) and knowledge (how to plan a cave dive with rebreather). I know that because I did dive with them. After the iantd ccr cave training I did understand what I was missing.

 

[crofrog]

I know a lot of GUE divers who are doing ccr cave diving without tools (scr mode) and knowledge (how to plan a cave dive with rebreather). I know that because I did dive with them. After the iantd ccr cave training I did understand what I was missing.

It sounds like there has been a local normalization of deviance.

 

[barth]

It sounds like there has been a local normalization of deviance.

There are gue ccr1 instructors who are telling that cave 2 + ccr 1 is enough for cavediving with rebreather. There are also gue ccr1 instructors who are telling gue ccr cave is required for cave diving with rebreather.

Gue procedures are not clear. (There is no gue ccr cave instructor in Europe.)