DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[Blackcrusader]

But to talk about non DIR, I see already around me that the deep air is making a come back because of the helium prices. We also have in Europe a big CMAS influence and there 60m on air on a single tank is done. I also have a 60m air 3* divemaster cert from them.

My BSAC instructor would not pass students who could not master trim and buoyancy. I was trained on air as no nitrox back in the mid 80's. I can control my buoyancy and trim. Buoyancy I can control with my lungs and be motionless over a reef or in a water column. This is necessary when you want to get photo's and video of some marine critters. The slightest twitch or an air bubble and that critter is gone. To get close you have to be floating like a giant plankton. I've had divers pull on me thinking unresponsive diver lol. Oh yeah maybe I held my breath too long lol I do not mind doing dives on air to 40m just watch my NDL time if not doing a deco dive.
If I was living in a country where I could dive frequently I would look at doing the GUE Fundamentals. My skills I have written before are I believe to be competent.

I would say that unless diving with my dive partners I take vacations with I do not have the sense of team diving with instabuddies unless they are normally working in the dive industry. Also I do not expect OW or AOW to really get what being a team is.
They just know to hang around their dive buddies, most of the time.
Sometimes when diving with instabuddy instructors on vacations I can say they treat the dive like two solo divers sort of paying attention to each other at times. I've had some go into light back gas deco dives to get those photos and I am like, OK not abandoning my buddy but really? We are meant to stick to NDL. We silently clear our deco obligations without too many noticing except the DM's who do pay attention to the divers in the group.

Someone mentioned DIR as Doing It Relaxed. Well that's me really. I want to have fun relaxed vacation dives. Money is not an issue for me at this stage of my life so some I know would not want to spend the $$$ doing GUE courses.

I see this on the site linked below and go, ok, same as what my BSAC instructor drilled into us. Only he never mentioned perfection that I recall. He mentioned having to meet required standards. BSAC dive leader was to 50m on air back in the 80's. I did the BSAC sports diving which was to 35m

Miko Zulueta shared a link.​

oeoSntsrdp6a90h1657a9gtifa37t0f1ht7h1l434l ·

Before you jump into CC…. Doesn’t it make sense to become “perfect” first in OC?
And I mean… PERFECT!
- Physics / Physiology
- Awareness levels
- Buoyancy
- Trim
- Team Diving
- Equipment knowledge
- Dive planning capability
- Trouble shooting & Emergency protocols
Be P…E…R…F…E…C…T firs

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[ofg-1]

Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?​

Other than the people around here you can troll up with this question, what makes you think that the majority of non GUE divers give a red rats ass what GUE does?

 

[Blackcrusader]

Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?​

Other than the people around here you can troll up with this question, what makes you think that the majority of non GUE divers give a red rats ass what GUE does?

Majority of divers have probably never heard of GUE. When I mention BSAC to most PADI divers they have never heard of that.

 

[crofrog]

Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?​

Other than the people around here you can troll up with this question, what makes you think that the majority of non GUE divers give a red rats ass what GUE does?

The number of people asking questions in this forum and then arguing about the answer without any training.

 

[Adobo]

Ok, so you state, only gue divers are dir divers? I don't agree. Most agencies teach nowadays more or less dir and for sure swedtech or ise also. But I also see in iantd, nss-cds, tdi or naui cave the dir approach. I also teach dir, but also use other ways, as that is sometimes better. I can join a gue team and dive their way, I can join other teams and dive their way also.
You also forgot 'DIR rebreather', that is also a club of ccr divers that follows the dir way of diving implemented within ccr diving. I think it would be good that people who think they dive the right and only right way to look at others also. That makes you a better diver. That is what I did also, doing courses all over the world, different agencies and talk and dive with a lot of divers.
That is what most longlasting instructors also do. I had students in a cave or trimix class that started with gue, and no problems. I had students that did a cours with me and later went to gue and told me you teach the same way. I had students that were trained by completely different instructors and also talk with them about why they learned it that way and tell them why I do it a little bit different. But also I have seen and learned from non-dir divers some things that I have implemented in my diving.
I have dived with Tom Mount, one of the cave pioniers. Non dir, but you could learn a lot from him. Tom was one of my instructors and I travelled to him because I wanted a vision of someone who was there already in the cave diving world when I was not born. With open mind talks and diving you will come further in my eyes. And then you can decide what kind of dir or non dir you use.

And remember, sidemount and ccr are new in the dir community. I am a dinosaur that already used that before it was implemented.

But to talk about non DIR, I see already around me that the deep air is making a come back because of the helium prices. We also have in Europe a big CMAS influence and there 60m on air on a single tank is done. I also have a 60m air 3* divemaster cert from them.

For the purpose of this forum, what is DiR was described in this post 18 years ago: What is DIR?

Whether or not you agree with this definition is irrelevant.

Most agencies do not teach DiR.
- none of the mainstream agencies mandate BP/W as the diver's BC.
- none mandate "primary donate".
- none use 32% as a the standard gas for recreational dives
- none specify paddle style fins for all divers
the list could go on and on.

Putting the letters "DiR" on a website don't make those people DiR. Just like putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it a beauty queen.

Tom Mount was most definitely not DiR. I won't comment on whether his way was a good way or a bad way. What I will say is that if I was interested in learning from the likes of Tom Mount, I would look for information in other forums. Similarly, if I had interest in deep air or any other scuba related stupidity, I would be looking for information on those topics in other forums.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Majority of divers have probably never heard of GUE. When I mention BSAC to most PADI divers they have never heard of that.

A friend of mine has a cousin in Brazil working as a dive guide. When he got certified with NAUI and told his cousin, his cousin said "Is that one of those American agencies?"

I wouldn't be surprised if many PADI divers haven't heard of SSI. You have to tip your hat to PADI marketing that equate "a PADI" to open water certification. That effectiveness should be taught in B-school as it is huge.

 

[mariosx]

I hardly know anybody in GUE using the "DIR" term, especially with the original meaning, since everyone understands that in the modern era, it's toxic and provocative for no particular reason. Even myself I am using it here just for clarity and always in quote to emphasize my disagreement with the original meaning.

People, obviously with a non-"DIR" mindset, and most probably without even "DIR" training, attempting to reutilize the term by redefining not only the name itself, but what it represents for the past 20+ years, is for sure something extremely interesting to me.

The "DIR" philosophy is very absolute and with very clear rules. I could understand why somebody without investing time to understand the basic concepts will call us a cult, the borg army, etc. I could understand why some very capable divers will prefer to follow their own ways and having a bad taste about GUE and "DIR" at a core fundamental level. Still, I cannot understand, though, why somebody will attempt to equate "DIR"-like approaches with actual "DIR" (redefined in every imaginable way). Truly, that attitude does not offer anything to the current forum, or to their lives (they don't dive "DIR" dives with "DIR" buddies, they don't refine their skills within a "DIR" community, etc...), other than using it as a title that represents nothing.

Well, I think that OP's original question becomes extremely relevant for that group of people. Why, somebody that wants to use the term "DIR" for some reason, and claim that they dive using "DIR", never pursue real training with a "DIR" agency but they feel complete with (best case) second hand training from unqualified to teach "DIR" instructors? I mean... I don't feel the need to claim (redefine, etc) that I perform self-defence the MCMAP way, and if for some reason I would like to claim that, or actually study it in the future, asking for 4 1-hour sessions with a non-instructor army friend will not magically make me an MCMAP practitioner. Neither would do, by redefining MCMAP as "Mac & Cheese, Mostly At PapaJohns" or something.

 

[Wibble]

the need for BOB is rare -extreme diving -i wouldnt put this in the mainstream as an option.

Uncommon now, but probably the future of sub-100m diving for the same reasons that there are no open circuit normoxic divers any longer.

As for team BO once you get beyond 80-90m your pretty much on your own

That’s when you do need a team approach. Obviously depends on the peril, but many require enormous amounts of gas (CO2) and you’ll probably be needing other people's gas to get you out alive and walking.

 

[tursiops]

If this forum is only about GUE, it should be named that. DIR historically means more than GUE, and places like Wikipedia say:

The DIR philosophy is now used as a basis for teaching scuba diving from entry-level to technical and cave qualifications by several organizations, such as Global Underwater Explorers (GUE),[2] Unified Team Diving (UTD)[3] and InnerSpace Explorers (ISE).​

Given that GUE seems to be trying to disavow the term DIR -- due to its baggage -- it is an obvious conflict to name the forum DIR but have vocal proponents for it to be about GUE only.

ADDED: The DIR subforum of Technical Diving has three subsubfora,,,,GUE, UTD, and Generic. You can thread-label which sububforum your thread is in. See next post for the explanation. This appears to be unique to the DIR subforum. So my objections/comment/suggestion above is moot if people will actually use the label when they start a thread. With a DIR-GUE label, the thread is about GUE. With no label, the thread is about DIR in general (including UTD!) and any sort of "please go away with your non-GUE comments" would be improper. I apologize for my confusion about this unique feature of the DIR subforum.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If this forum is only about GUE, it should be named that.

There are three thread title "prefixes" that can be selected when posting a new thread to the DIR forum: "DIR-generic," "DIR-GUE" and "DIR-UTD." Once posted, the prefix is added to the thread title. So, it's not the forum itself but rather the thread title that indicates the intended scope of the thread.