DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[flymolo]

Does that include jumping in alone, swimming around the wreck alone although passing other divers, then doing a deco ascent alone? Two hours of hydrobaric therapy. Lovely.

Obvs. if diving a deeper location, it'll be back up the shotline to a lazy shot to be with all the other divers for the long wait.

I know in the unambiguous world of diving solo and self-reliant aren't the same thing, but they have a lot in common, especially the attitude.

I don't think anyone here understands what you're pontificating about

 

[ginti]

Does that include jumping in alone, swimming around the wreck alone although passing other divers, then doing a deco ascent alone? Two hours of hydrobaric therapy. Lovely.

You know the answer

I know in the unambiguous world of diving solo and self-reliant aren't the same thing, but they have a lot in common, especially the attitude.

There is no ambiguity.
Self-reliant = able to troubleshoot any vital problem and most nonvital ones autonomously.
Solo = without a buddy.

I do not see any attitude in common. To be diving solo, you (theoretically) need to be self-reliant, the opposite is not valid, and many self-reliant divers are against solo diving.

Cm'on, man, are you trolling?

 

[Wibble]

I don't think anyone here understands what you're pontificating about

'cos you're stuck in caves?

 

[flymolo]

'cos you're stuck in caves?

That would certainly be preferable to listening to you wax philosophical about nothing.

Do you even cave dive? No? Well I'm sure that won't prevent you from telling us all about that...

 

[berndo]

Sure! Here are a few references, but do not ask me for more, please - It's effortless to find similar data around

Diving Medicine for Scuba Divers (2015), 86% of divers are alone when they die:

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

Other references:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23955484_Common_causes_of_open-circuit_recreational_diving_fatalities

DIVING FATALITIES - DAN Annual Diving Report 2017 Edition - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here's a summary from a DAN study (last link); it is interesting, but surely if you want to have more insights, you need more data:
View attachment 773768
In less than 30% of deaths, the buddy was present; in all other cases, there was no buddy (either because the diver was intentionally solo or they became solo for some reason).

Notice that 12% of fatalities happened to divers who started the dive alone; now, I cannot say the percentage of dives intended to be solo dives, but I wonder whether it is less than 12%... That would be significant, although not conclusive.

Hi Ginti, I think you're misunderstanding this data.
First of all. It's not helpful to chuck 'seperated' and 'solo' in one group as you did in your initial post. I think you need to read the actual reports to see why.
I'll give you a few examples of typical scenarios that have happened more than once (you can find these in the DAN reports over and over again):
1. Diver likely had a medical issue on den descent or in bad viz and or current and gets seperated due to the medical issue. The diver is either found dead or remains missing. in many of these cases the divers was an older person.
2. Solo diver is a novice at what he is doing. For instance, new rebreather, new dpv and doesn't use a checklist. deliberately or forgets and drowns due to hypoxia.
3. Solo diver goes on a night dives while intoxicated and is found dead.
4. Untrained solo diver is found dead.

The first type was not a solo related issue.
The second, third and fourth type diver made a reckless and deliberate decision to do something highly risky. That's not a solo issue. If you go out drunk or untrained or decide you don't need a checklist and you do it with a buddy, it's not save either.

It's seems to me you knew solo diving is super dangerous and set out to prove your opinion by reading headlines.
I find the that statement that 86% of diver die alone is very misleading when talking about solo diving. Getting seperated from your buddy is a much larger group than actula solo diver.
If you could actually find accident reports in which the solo part was either the cause or a major contributing factor, it would be interesting to read. I'm sure there are some but even though I have read many reports, I'm not sure I've ever found one of those.
I other words, can you find me a accident report, were a trained and experienced diver, with a not-wacky dive plan had an solo accident?

I hope you're not taking this as an attack, but I think your wrong and the data your posted doesn't support your claim at all. I think this is perpetuating an old wives tale.
When I look at the data I see something different. Too me it looks like the people who are more prone to die diving are older divers, divers that don't dive a lot and older divers that don't dive regularly and go below 100 feet or so. Not solo divers that dive a lot and do it conservatively.

If anyone actually has data that shows solo diving for experienced divers to be more dangerous than buddy diving, I'd love to see it.

Just FIY, I think diving with a good buddy is the ideal way to go and likely the safest. But in reality not every buddy will make a dive saver.

 

[BlueTrin]

What situation do you feel it’s safer to dive solo?
And when/where would you not run a line?

I think there are cases where although someone in the group will benefit from a buddy, the other person may not have a reciprocal benefit in this arrangement.

 

[San Diego Climber]

You do realize you're not required to dive halcyon gear, right? If you don't then you shouldnt be posting in this thread. Halcyon ger fits well in the gue system and obviously there is a direct relationshipt, but instructors do not require particular brands.

I think we're close to revealing the 10 Commandments of GUE; just need one more.
I've had people ask or comment to me about all of these but the sidemount one:

- Thou shalt not use a computer
- Thou shalt not sidemount
- Thou shalt not dive air; if there's only air available, thou shalt sit by the pool/beach/cafe instead of dive
- Thou shalt not dive with infidels non-GUE divers
- Thou shalt only dive with Halcyon equipment
- Thou shalt wear gear in any color but black
- Thou shalt not pass deeper than 100.0000'/30.00m on Nx32
- Thou shalt not use a closed circuit rebreather
- Thou shalt not dive without first renewing expired certs

TBH the odds of this thread reaching a mutually agreeable ending of any kind are about the same as Rep and Dem leaders having televised Sunday drag brunch together. At least it hasn't gotten locked yet!

 

[BlueTrin]

Statistics say the opposite. The vast majority of fatal accidents happen in solo diving or with separated buddies. Any DAN report will show that to you.

EDIT: thanks for posting the source.

However, IMHO, a separation even is a buddy pair event, not a solo diving event, as they started as a buddy pair.

Because people die when separated, does not obligatory mean that they would have had the same outcome if they were solo diving. Sorry to be nitpicking here, but for interpreting statistics one has to be careful.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think we're close to revealing the 10 Commandments of GUE; just need one more.
I've had people ask or comment to me about all of these but the sidemount one:

- Thou shalt not use a computer
- Thou shalt not sidemount
- Thou shalt not dive air; if there's only air available, thou shalt sit by the pool/beach/cafe instead of dive
- Thou shalt not dive with infidels non-GUE divers
- Thou shalt only dive with Halcyon equipment
- Thou shalt wear gear in any color but black
- Thou shalt not pass deeper than 100.0000'/30.00m on Nx32
- Thou shalt not use a closed circuit rebreather
- Thou shalt not dive without first renewing expired certs

TBH the odds of this thread reaching a mutually agreeable ending of any kind are about the same as Rep and Dem leaders having televised Sunday drag brunch together. At least it hasn't gotten locked yet!

so dumb.

 

[LiteHedded]

Anyone agree with me this thread is worthless yet?

It’s just a place for people with no experience with what they’re talking about to spout nonsense they heard at a dive site while stuffing their long hose and putting their 80/20 bottle on their right side just to spite a 70 year old man who quit diving in 2003