DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[rddvet]

Or call the dive and try again with someone new the next day

I've done a decent amount of cave dives with instabuddies I got from an instructor's contact list and haven't had a dud yet

Not saying its not going to happen but I'd be willing to bet the number of qualified/good people on your instructors previous students list is way more than people who suck

Once you find more people who are good on their skills you can branch out from there with people that they dive with

heck you might even make a friend in the process!

I've been cave diving for 15 years and am a local. I've instabuddied enough times including those recommended by friends or respected instructors and have had enough bad experiences to not enjoy finding new buddies. I still will, but it is always 100% assuming I'll be solo diving with someone in my same vicinity. I know I can help them, but I'm often not convinced they could help me. My wife last year or so dove with a new buddy recommended by an instructor we respect and she got stuck in zero vis because the guy couldn't handle buoyancy in any passage not big enough to drive a truck through.

The benefit of diving with GUE divers is most of the time you're diving with like-minded people who dive with a high level of skill. But there are some GUE divers I will not dive with either due to skills that need to sharpened or unsafe attitudes. It happens with people certified by any agency.

 

[rddvet]

Sure! Here are a few references, but do not ask me for more, please - It's effortless to find similar data around

Diving Medicine for Scuba Divers (2015), 86% of divers are alone when they die:

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

Other references:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23955484_Common_causes_of_open-circuit_recreational_diving_fatalities

DIVING FATALITIES - DAN Annual Diving Report 2017 Edition - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here's a summary from a DAN study (last link); it is interesting, but surely if you want to have more insights, you need more data:
View attachment 773768
In less than 30% of deaths, the buddy was present; in all other cases, there was no buddy (either because the diver was intentionally solo or they became solo for some reason).

Notice that 12% of fatalities happened to divers who started the dive alone; now, I cannot say the percentage of dives intended to be solo dives, but I wonder whether it is less than 12%... That would be significant, although not conclusive.

Thanks. Wasn't doubting you, just wanted to see the info since alot of people on sb come up with "facts" from "studies" that don't mean anything.

I will require a minimum of 8 source references and expect footnoting and MLA style referencing.

 

[ginti]

Thanks. Wasn't doubting you, just wanted to see the info since alot of people on sb come up with "facts" from "studies" that don't mean anything.

I will require a minimum of 8 source references and expect footnoting and MLA style referencing.

I also tend to be data-driven and skeptical about those things that "everyone knows," so I get your point. There are some references to start more detailed research at the bottom page of this Wikipedia page:

Scuba diving fatalities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some of them are actual scientific articles, other are just reports or book chapters.

I do not have the time for a better analysis, but if you come up with something that may challenge the view I expressed, I will be glad to hear it!

EDIT: by the way, instead of "8 sources," you may try to look for some meta-analyses, which are usually very reliable ways to assess the status quo of research

 

[rddvet]

I also tend to be data-driven and skeptical about those things that "everyone knows," so I get your point. There are some references to start more detailed research at the bottom page of this Wikipedia page:

Scuba diving fatalities - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some of them are actual scientific articles, other are just reports or book chapters.

I do not have the time for a better analysis, but if you come up with something that may challenge the view I expressed, I will be glad to hear it!

EDIT: by the way, instead of "8 sources," you may try to look for some meta-analyses, which are usually very reliable ways to assess the status quo of research

Just joking on more sources. But nice to see the references

 

[JonG1]

Solo Diving - Coming Out of the Closet -

by Mark Powell Have you ever ended up separated from your buddy or dived with a buddy who's not really paying much attention to you? Are you an instructor

www.tdisdi.com

Worth a watch on the subject matter, its been a while but I think what the research showed was that a proportion of divers who ended deceased or injured and then listed as solo did not start off solo, ie they ended up separated from the buddy.

I'm easy diving either way and don't have strong biases on either approach but have had more drama with "instabuddies" or non-regular buddies than solo.

 

[LiteHedded]

Solo Diving - Coming Out of the Closet -

by Mark Powell Have you ever ended up separated from your buddy or dived with a buddy who's not really paying much attention to you? Are you an instructor

www.tdisdi.com

Worth a watch on the subject matter, its been a while but I think what the research showed was that a proportion of divers who ended deceased or injured and then listed as solo did not start off solo, ie they ended up separated from the buddy.

I'm easy diving either way and don't have strong biases on either approach but have had more drama with "instabuddies" or non-regular buddies than solo.

it's like an hour long. can you provide links to the research?

 

[PfcAJ]

Interesting theme of “I’m better than my buddies”.

Are you guys not diving with people who are better than you? At least some of them time?

 

[ginti]

Worth a watch on the subject matter, its been a while but I think what the research showed was that a proportion of divers who ended deceased or injured and then listed as solo did not start off solo, ie they ended up separated from the buddy.

Hi Jon, if you see the previous references I linked, this is the case, only 12% of fatal accidents occurred to divers who started solo, while 58% occurred to divers who got separated. Similar results in other reports, I think.

But this is obvious due to the reason that most dives start according to the buddy system.

A more exhaustive parameter would be the ratio of fatal solo-dives over the total number of solo-dives, compared to the ratio of fatal buddy-dives over the total number of buddy-dives. I strongly suspect these numbers favor the buddy system - in other words, I think that less than 12% of dives are solo-dives.

But even this approach wouldn't be conclusive.

NB I am not an expert in this field. You should better look at some scientific references to form an idea

EDIT: I am not trying to teach anything here, just chatting - I wouldn't be surprised to discover that you know better than me

 

[Wibble]

This is self-reliance, not solo diving. Solo means "without a buddy," not self-reliant.

Feel free to call it differently if you want, but then we will never understand each other

Does that include jumping in alone, swimming around the wreck alone although passing other divers, then doing a deco ascent alone? Two hours of hydrobaric therapy. Lovely.

Obvs. if diving a deeper location, it'll be back up the shotline to a lazy shot to be with all the other divers for the long wait.

I know in the unambiguous world of diving solo and self-reliant aren't the same thing, but they have a lot in common, especially the attitude.

 

[PEDiver]

Are you guys not diving with people who are better than you? At least some of them time?

IMO, the best thing I ever did was find mentors who had decades more of experience than I did who took me under their wing. I'm lucky now to call them my regular dive buddies.