DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[MidOH]

So......every dive is a "self reliant" dive.

I just decide if the surface is my redundant air, or an extra bottle.

The buddy system is a placebo at best. The accidents forum is loaded with failures of the buddy system. And death due to panic, where a properly executed CESA would have worked fine. Simple stuff.

 

[ginti]

The buddy system is a placebo at best. The accidents forum is loaded with failures of the buddy system. And death due to panic, where a properly executed CESA would have worked fine. Simple stuff.

Statistics say the opposite. The vast majority of fatal accidents happen in solo diving or with separated buddies. Any DAN report will show that to you.

 

[rddvet]

Good points if that’s your risk appetite

I’ve heard it called “the handshake,” but an s drill/valve drill in the shallows with someone you don’t know will tell you a decent amount about how they’re gonna be in the cave

If they get offended and refuse when it’s suggested, you can bet they probably won’t be a huge help in an ooa or failure situation

So when they can’t do an s drill am I supposed to say sorry you’re a crap diver I’m diving alone? After bad experiences sometimes I’d just rather dive alone

 

[MidOH]

Well, I see way too many of:

"I didnt see where my dead buddy went".
Buddy couldnt even float a dead body.
AE's after screaming to the surface holding their breath.
Lost and never found buddy.

Dive boats that cant count, and buddies that cant even be brought to mention that their buddy isnt even on said boat.

You do you, but "self reliant" sounds like a fair game plan.

 

[rddvet]

Statistics say the opposite. The vast majority of fatal accidents happen in solo diving or with separated buddies. Any DAN report will show that to you.

I’d be interested in seeing what studies show this? Not that I don’t believe you but it sounds like stuff that gets thrown around without any real data behind it. (Not by Dan but by people who misquote studies)

 

[The Chairman]

Luckily for me,

I didn't leave things to luck. Most agencies require students to "master" the CESA. While you might think you're special, you're the exception rather than the rule. I only know of two agencies that don't require it and they certify relatively few divers compared to the rest.

A solo diving perspective: When I joined SB back in 2001, solo diving was a taboo subject. That changed shortly thereafter, and in 2003 I was told by the president of a diving agency, that they would never, ever be a part of SB because we allowed divers to discuss solo diving. There were similar consternations about NitrOx before SB even existed. In any event, I doubt that the apparent prohibition of solo diving in GUE classes is the reason why non-GUE divers want to know more. Which IS the subject of this thread.

Again, I think many are intrigued by the structure provided by GUE. It gives their diving a purpose. Many are also intrigued by their skills, though most cavern students learn a lot of the in-water "poise", and I can't see anyone getting full cave in NSS-CDS without having that as well. The down side is that many (most?) instructors don't realize that incorporating trim and buoyancy from the start makes teaching Scuba a breeze. I produced cavern ready divers over and over again without much trouble. The skills just aren't that hard if you don't learn bad habits first.

 

[jeffmg]

So when they can’t do an s drill am I supposed to say sorry you’re a crap diver I’m diving alone? After bad experiences sometimes I’d just rather dive alone

Or call the dive and try again with someone new the next day

I've done a decent amount of cave dives with instabuddies I got from an instructor's contact list and haven't had a dud yet

Not saying its not going to happen but I'd be willing to bet the number of qualified/good people on your instructors previous students list is way more than people who suck

Once you find more people who are good on their skills you can branch out from there with people that they dive with

heck you might even make a friend in the process!

 

[PfcAJ]

How droll.

How about they don't need to be bothered to rescue "me" because I'm diving with a self-sufficient solo attitude with the right kit and sufficient bailout to not need their help should there be problems?

Must be cool to be infallible.

 

[LiteHedded]

Must be cool to be infallible.

yes. it is cool

The buddy system is a placebo at best. The accidents forum is loaded with failures of the buddy system. And death due to panic, where a properly executed CESA would have worked fine. Simple stuff.

GUE trained divers mostly, or no? Since that's who we're discussing

 

[ginti]

I’d be interested in seeing what studies show this? Not that I don’t believe you but it sounds like stuff that gets thrown around without any real data behind it. (Not by Dan but by people who misquote studies)

Sure! Here are a few references, but do not ask me for more, please - It's effortless to find similar data around

Diving Medicine for Scuba Divers (2015), 86% of divers are alone when they die:

Wayback Machine

Other references:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23955484_Common_causes_of_open-circuit_recreational_diving_fatalities

DIVING FATALITIES - DAN Annual Diving Report 2017 Edition - NCBI Bookshelf

Here's a summary from a DAN study (last link); it is interesting, but surely if you want to have more insights, you need more data:

In less than 30% of deaths, the buddy was present; in all other cases, there was no buddy (either because the diver was intentionally solo or they became solo for some reason).

Notice that 12% of fatalities happened to divers who started the dive alone; now, I cannot say the percentage of dives intended to be solo dives, but I wonder whether it is less than 12%... That would be significant, although not conclusive.