Why are jacket style BCD's the most common??

[Altamira]

The problem being, of course, that few divers are very good divers, so the real question then is how will a normal diver perform in them, seeing as it's life safety equipment.

Most divers, and by that I define as the vast majority of divers who only dive a couple of days a year, usually on vacation, rent their equipment. What they get in rental equipment is a jacket bcd, which is generally suitable life safety equipment for the type of diving they do. While they may not be very good divers, most of them are OK divers, and would be no more proficient or safe in a bp/w or back inflate. Just my opinion of course.

 

[formernuke]

So it is marketing, I was not trying to rehash the jacket vs bpw debate just wondering why we see so many jackets.

 

[Altamira]

What a very good diver can use is a misleading argument. That a every good diver might do well with either does mean a beginner would. A very good pianist can play any piano, despite how well the keyboard action performs, though maybe not as well as they would a well tuned one. For a beginner, a crappy or inconsistent action adds troubles they do not need. For the expert, playing the piano very very well would be hard with a crappy keyboard. It certainly adds extra work. I say that as a prior piano student.

I learned on a jacket, but don't recall it much. Then I used a backplate and harness. Then I went to renting jacket BCs. I hated the jackets, they kept shifting around. How stable I could get them varied with how inflated it was. I went back to a backplate and harness. So I've had multiple periods of diving each. I would not go back to a jacket.

I'm sure I can dive decently in a jacket. I don't think I would do it as well or as comfortably as I dive a BP/W. In the past, I've found it to have more issues underwater, I don't think those have changed. I say this as a decent diver, a blackbelt, and having taken advanced and masters level classes in west coast swing dance, a few others at lesser levels, and competition coaching in international ballroom. So my expectation of 'can dive with' may be a hair above 'swims with generally the right direction and depth'. With a jacket, diver and BC seemed usually separate, with a harness, they seem one.

I started diving with no bcd. Then when I came back to diving, I trained in a jacket bcd, bought a jacket bcd so my dive buddy/wife and I would have the same gear. After several years, when my wife stopped diving, I bought a back inflate which I like a lot, and would not go back to a jacket either. However, I can, and have, dived a jacket on occasion without any issues, just like I could dive without a bcd without any issues. Also, not sure what your martial arts and dance background has to do with diving, but since I do not have any dance expertise, I could be wrong.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So it is marketing, I was not trying to rehash the jacket vs bpw debate just wondering why we see so many jackets.

Profit margin. Planned obsolescence.

 

[MichaelMc]

I started diving with no bcd. Then when I came back to diving, I trained in a jacket bcd, bought a jacket bcd so my dive buddy/wife and I would have the same gear. After several years, when my wife stopped diving, I bought a back inflate which I like a lot, and would not go back to a jacket either. However, I can, and have, dived a jacket on occasion without any issues, just like I could dive without a bcd without any issues. Also, not sure what your martial arts and dance background has to do with diving, but since I do not have any dance expertise, I could be wrong.

I agree that a good diver can dive either. And said that I could dive either. Maybe with varying results.

There are many discussions that X and Y perform equally well: regs, cars, lights, fins, BCs. If the level of discussion is: it gives air, moves down the street, kicks, varies buoyancy, or not, then most any product in the category likely performs to that level of equally. Some do not notice any detail beyond that level. Which is fine. It does makes their judgement of equality a bit limited to yes it is a reg/car/fin/BC or it is not.

The activities I mentioned are physical ones where the ability to make precise movement becomes the expectation, and that ones gear not impede that. I meant my inclusion as a background that I can see the differences. The connection is that I see diving the same way. I am accustomed to making precise movements underwater, unless I'm having a bad day with me or my gear. It was also meant as a caveat that that is where I'm judging from. So my judgement may not apply to all.

I think your point on what divers will likely have available to rent is a good one. I think it matches that a 'float them high' jacket is a safe lowest common denominator bit of gear. It keeps a nervous diver calmer on the surface, and some divers may be nervous. It solves that problem. On a vacation dive boat or in an intro class. For a decent diver, IF time is taken to load trim pockets properly, it can produce a trimmed out diver. Maybe it is not the best underwater. But it keeps problem clients calmer other places. And it may be hard to tell who is which when they walk up. I can see why vacation boats and intro classes might hedge their bets in that direction. I may not like it's results on how divers progress, or the results on the coral if trimming is not done, but I can see it.

I agree putting the vacation divers in a, possibly, better performing BC will not magically make them more proficient. I do think over time it will speed up their advance as it will take out the noisy signal that the jacket BC is sending them.

 

[loosenit2]

Why can we not just acknowledge that shops use jacket style BCD’s for training and rental fleets because they are more easily adjusted? Yes BPWs are entirely more adjustable but it requires more effort to do so. Put on a jacket style BCD, pull a couple of tabs, tighten a strap or two and wallah, it fits. Getting a proper fit with a BP/W, with a Hogartharian harness takes a lot more time to get right. Will it serve you better in the long run, probably, but that does not mean that a BP/W will meet training and rental needs as well.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Getting a proper fit with a BP/W, with a Hogartharian harness takes a lot more time to get right.

It does? Using tri-glides makes it super fast. Get the right fit, mark with white chalk, install slider. Do the same with the crotch strap. Takes very little time. 5 minutes is doable.

 

[loosenit2]

It does? Using tri-glides makes it super fast. Get the right fit, mark with white chalk, install slider. Do the same with the crotch strap. Takes very little time. 5 minutes is doable.

Put on jacket style bcd pull a few straps, takes about 30 seconds, yes much faster. And a diver can do it with little to no assistance.

Don’t get me wrong, I use a BP/W and the benefits are extraordinary, but speed of adjustment is not one of them. In training and rental fleets speed, ease of use, and low maintenance cost and time are king.

 

[MichaelMc]

Hogarthian straps are not a requirement for BP/W. Just an extra secure aspect of it. One can use adjustable shoulder straps or rollers at the hip to let the waist/shoulder strap slide freely. I'd think one plate fits most, and the ruggedness of BP/W would be an operating cost advantage. Certainly I'd read of some independent instructors using them to cut down the number of BC sizes they needed to stock.

Now, it may not help their sale figures on some of their major product lines.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Put on jacket style bcd pull a few straps, takes about 30 seconds, yes much faster. And a diver can do it with little to no assistance.

Don’t get me wrong, I use a BP/W and the benefits are extraordinary, but speed of adjustment is not one of them. In training and rental fleets speed, ease of use, and low maintenance cost and time are king.

I don't agree on the premise of time, as I see many people with poorly fitted BCDs struggling with adjustments. But in the end, it won't matter. I'll explain.

If the focus is teaching and making solid divers as quickly as possible, you can't beat a bp/w. That 5 minutes spent saves a lot of time in the pool and open water. Of course, I'm independent and not looking at selling the highest margin. While I teach in cold water, I also have to manage my student's comfort, hence anything I can do on land to make it easier for my students to perform underwater is a so incredibly worth it.

While I don't have any research to back this claim, my guess is the vast majority of people learn to dive in the tropics and don't have the cold water issue I mention in the above paragraph. But they do save themselves time. However, I don't teach a series of check boxes. I don't place students on their knees. I value my own time as well as that of my students. Dive shop owners pay their instructors per certification quite often. It is in their best interest to just certify all students if they don't drown or quit during their course.

If agencies required proficiency with objective standards, you'd see a lot more bp/w in open water. But I do not wish to rant/take this thread OT.