Why are experienced divers getting killed and injured lately?

[MikeFerrara]

In short, more complex dives are being done now, with the introduction of new breathing gases, and deeper depths. Add to that the growing population of diving and you get an increase in accidents. It seems inevitable that divers will push the limits and some will have accidents.

First of all, as far as I know, there is no evidence of an increase in accident at all. Since we don't know how many divers there are or how many dives are being done, we don't have a "rate" at all. The number of fatalities reports to DAN have remained fairly constant for quit a while. In addition, aside from medical issues, it still looks like it's divers with little training and/or little recent experience who are at the greatest risk...ie, poor skills.

I don't see any evidence that technical diving accidents are more than a barely visable blip in the data. Deep dives have been done since the beginning the increased availability of more appropriate gasses and advances in decompression stratagy have only reduced the risk.

It remains to be seen whether the increase in popularity and accessability of technical diving will change things.

It's still the poorly skilled recreational diver who gets wacked most often.

 

[dherbman]

Can someone recap the previous 67 pages,,,,I missed out---

PiFi is as confused now as he was when he started the thread and theoretical physics should not be combined with philosophy.

 

[pilot fish]

PiFi is as confused now as he was when he started the thread and theoretical physics should not be combined with philosophy.

I do confess to being confused when I read your off topic responces. No surpirse there. When I read them I think, he seems to be perplexed by the thread topic.:shakehead

 

[pilot fish]

First of all, as far as I know, there is no evidence of an increase in accident at all. Since we don't know how many divers there are or how many dives are being done, we don't have a "rate" at all. The number of fatalities reports to DAN have remained fairly constant for quit a while. In addition, aside from medical issues, it still looks like it's divers with little training and/or little recent experience who are at the greatest risk...ie, poor skills.

I don't see any evidence that technical diving accidents are more than a barely visable blip in the data. Deep dives have been done since the beginning the increased availability of more appropriate gasses and advances in decompression stratagy have only reduced the risk.

It remains to be seen whether the increase in popularity and accessability of technical diving will change things.

It's still the poorly skilled recreational diver who gets wacked most often.

I think it might be easy to figure out a World wide population of divers by membership in the dive agencies: PADI. SSI, NAUI etc, but I'm not sure if anyone knows that figure. As a pecentage of divers there might not be an increase, but I think as an absolute number it's higher.

I think the more we push diving to the limits, the more we are going to see an increase in the numbers. ?

 

[FIA-Sparki]

You can do everything right and still die. But doing everything right reduces your risks considerably.

My philosophy: Take a risk, but don't be stupid.

Things i've done: Drove on the highway when there were "NO CARS" <--- being safe, but driving 1 handed, * 1 hand on wheel, had some subway in the other *, and pushing 170 KM/h in the CR-v. Not necessarily wise, but its fun, I was not putting anyone else at risk but myself. Would I take BOTH my hands off the wheel? Maybe, depends on the road conditions and how stable the car is. When I get the chance, I will push w/e vehicle im driving to its limits, BUT NOT BEYOND. If you push something BEYOND what is - a somewhat safe risk - then your asking for trouble. I know my limits, I know my cars limits, I know the road condition, and no one was around. If I got hurt or died, no one to blame but me. I take risks, but hey, EVERYTHING has a risk. Could be walking down the street and a car may veer off and plow you.

For a good demonstration of how life can bite you in the rear at any moment, watch the "Final Destination" movies, man they are good

Something else: Took my minibike on the road, pushed 70 KM/h on it when no one was around. <---- can't harm anyone but myself. Fell off, dragged my knees for 35 feet. Ya, got some nice bloody knees. Do I care? Not really. I knew the risk, took it, payed for it. was fun while it lasted, and I look back seeing at as a fun thing. Would I do it again? OF COURSE!

Just my $0.02

Take a risk, have fun, but stay within your limits and enjoy

-Sparki

 

[drbill]

Over the years I have lost several friends who were very experienced divers. Too often they died due to over confidence or a belief (often based on their years of experience) that they could survive a situation that would be threatening or deadly to less experienced divers.

It can happen to the best of divers if they forget safe diving practices and exceed normally accepted limits. It can also happen when a totally unforeseen incident creates a problem they never expected, and had no recovery plan for.

When I experienced an "OOA" at 70 ft a few years ago, it was the last thing I expected. Zero air passing through my first stage to the main secondary, the octo or the SPG. Zilch on a full tank. It turned out to be a probable clogged debris tube which I'd never experienced in 40+ years of diving (at that time).

It was the one dive I really needed my pony and the one dive I hadn't taken it on. Fortunately my training and experience had me begin ascending as soon as I took my first pull off the reg and received nothing. Fortunately I am in fairly good condition (especially for an old fart) and successfully did a CESA from that depth although it wasn't easy to maintain the ascent at a "safe" rate (1 ft per second).

 

[pilot fish]

Over the years I have lost several friends who were very experienced divers. Too often they died due to over confidence or a belief (often based on their years of experience) that they could survive a situation that would be threatening or deadly to less experienced divers.

It can happen to the best of divers if they forget safe diving practices and exceed normally accepted limits. It can also happen when a totally unforeseen incident creates a problem they never expected, and had no recovery plan for.

When I experienced an "OOA" at 70 ft a few years ago, it was the last thing I expected. Zero air passing through my first stage to the main secondary, the octo or the SPG. Zilch on a full tank. It turned out to be a probable clogged debris tube which I'd never experienced in 40+ years of diving (at that time).

It was the one dive I really needed my pony and the one dive I hadn't taken it on. Fortunately my training and experience had me begin ascending as soon as I took my first pull off the reg and received nothing. Fortunately I am in fairly good condition (especially for an old fart) and successfully did a CESA from that depth although it wasn't easy to maintain the ascent at a "safe" rate (1 ft per second).

Wow! Thank God you were not deeper. That is a great story. I can only hope and pray that I stay as calm as you seemed to have. Was a dive buddy too far away?

 

[slackercruster]

perhaps as the dive population ages, divers who could do certain dives are pushing
themselves past what their older bodies can handle. or perhaps they are taking
risks a less experienced and seasoned diver would not.

combine that with more divers out there, and the percentages do the rest

just a guess

Yes, good point.

 

[slackercruster]

Over the years I have lost several friends who were very experienced divers. Too often they died due to over confidence or a belief (often based on their years of experience) that they could survive a situation that would be threatening or deadly to less experienced divers.

It can happen to the best of divers if they forget safe diving practices and exceed normally accepted limits. It can also happen when a totally unforeseen incident creates a problem they never expected, and had no recovery plan for.

When I experienced an "OOA" at 70 ft a few years ago, it was the last thing I expected. Zero air passing through my first stage to the main secondary, the octo or the SPG. Zilch on a full tank. It turned out to be a probable clogged debris tube which I'd never experienced in 40+ years of diving (at that time).

It was the one dive I really needed my pony and the one dive I hadn't taken it on. Fortunately my training and experience had me begin ascending as soon as I took my first pull off the reg and received nothing. Fortunately I am in fairly good condition (especially for an old fart) and successfully did a CESA from that depth although it wasn't easy to maintain the ascent at a "safe" rate (1 ft per second).

Pony missing? I just clip it on my BC via a cetacea pony strap no big deal. And as you pointed out lapsed insurance is of no benefit. In the past I used a complex pony harness and did not use it due to complexities then I simplified things and it is no big deal.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think it might be easy to figure out a World wide population of divers by membership in the dive agencies: PADI. SSI, NAUI etc, but I'm not sure if anyone knows that figure. As a pecentage of divers there might not be an increase, but I think as an absolute number it's higher.

I think the more we push diving to the limits, the more we are going to see an increase in the numbers. ?

The agencies know how many have been certified but no one knows how many divers are actually diving or how many dives they're doing.

Going by things like DAN reports, I don't even think the absolute number of fatalities is higher.

The data that I see, still suggest that the most dangerous limits being pushed are the personal limits of new and/or inexperienced and/or poorly skilled divers. "limits" aren't the same for one diver as they are for the next.

I know for instance that some divers are pushing limits by diving to the upper end of recreational "limits" in some of our deeper and colder local quarries even on AOW training dives. How do I know? Simply by the number of divers who have been hurt, killed or suffered near misses doing it. By the same token, for other divers, it's a mundane non-challenging dive.

Another example of the kind of dives that scare me are all the "recreational" divers doing deep drift dives and dives into overheads at resort areas like Cozumel. Personally, I wouldn't even want to be in the vicinity when a bunch of recreational divers are going through devils throat at 130+ or doing 140 in the Blue Hole. IMO, many of those divers are pushing things far more than a diver with more training and more experience going much deeper, longer and further into an overhead environment.
I guess the meaning of "pushing the limits" is a matter of perspective. When an individual diver pushes their own personal limits things get risky but, again, not everyone's limits are the same. Hearing recreational divers who do those dives suggest that there's something inherantly more risky about more technical diving by divers who are trained for it tickles my funny bone something fierce...in a concerned for their safety sort of way.