DIR- Generic Diver attitude! Be careful, experienced divers...

[Gone for diving]

…and why are we talking about climbing when this is a scuba diving forum???

Because other sports use different things and occasionally some of those things are handy for diving.

Carabiners are very strong, I am sure a bolt snap is not rated for 100lb lift bag,
Especially the Chinese ones, and those nice fancy skinny ones.

So at best your running a 2:1 safety factor on a good day

 

[jadairiii]

Only saying that boltsnaps can jam.

Every item of gear you enter the water with is prone to failure. 45 years of diving I've never had one jam, that does not mean it wont happen one day, but I do maintain my gear.

I did have one fail completely recently. And while on deco years ago I watched my buddy's $10K scooter start to drift away (that he had clipped off on his butt D-ring), I grabbed it and reconnected it to me with an extra double-ender.

But I will still use bolt snaps.

 

[happy-diver]

Origins

This is the dude that dirt darted past Sally Wahrman dislodging her mask and reg

http://www.joelsilverstein.com/js1/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Doria-2010.pdf

SmarterBoard

Suicide Clips

To draw the conclusion that Ormsby died because of a clip is downright stupidity. He was a dead man once he went into Gimbel's headfirst and overweighted, clip or no clip. According to the book, Ormsby died of drowning after becoming entangled in the wreck. His body was recoverd wrapped in...

scubaboard.com

 

[johndiver999]

Years ago a buddy had a "suicide clip" on her BC harness. A large one. She was swimming from the stern along a tag line to the bow anchor line in rough water, at night and fighting a strong current at the surface.

Somehow the damn clip auto-attached to the tag line rope which was a very heavy line, like maybe one inch diameter. I had a hell of a time figuring out what the heck she was yelling about, and it was a TOTAL PAIN to work that gate open and get the rope out of it, while she wore the BC - in the current in the waves and in the dark. There was absolutely no way she could have done it herself.

Although it was not life threatening it was a pretty serious problem (of course I could have easily cut the rope), but the captain would not have been happy with that choice. It was good lesson for me to not use gate clips underwater, how they can become hopelessly fouled and also to attach all clips on my harness via a non metal connection.

 

[EmotionalSupportTrevally]

Years ago a buddy had a "suicide clip" on her BC harness. A large one. She was swimming from the stern along a tag line to the bow anchor line in rough water, at night and fighting a strong current at the surface.

Somehow the damn clip auto-attached to the tag line rope which was a very heavy line, like maybe one inch diameter. I had a hell of a time figuring out what the heck she was yelling about, and it was a TOTAL PAIN to work that gate open and get the rope out of it, while she wore the BC - in the current in the waves and in the dark. There was absolutely no way she could have done it herself.

Although it was not life threatening it was a pretty serious problem (of course I could have easily cut the rope), but the captain would not have been happy with that choice. It was good lesson for me to not use gate clips underwater, how they can become hopelessly fouled and also to attach all clips on my harness via a non metal connection.

IF you found that a carabiner was actually needed while diving for some reason, Grivel makes a line of double-gated carabiners that can't get accidentally clipped. As a climber, I'm pretty impressed with them. I wouldn't want to have to work those in thick gloves, though. And am still not sure what problems a carabiner solves while diving.

 

[johndiver999]

IF you found that a carabiner was actually needed while diving for some reason, Grivel makes a line of double-gated carabiners that can't get accidentally clipped. As a climber, I'm pretty impressed with them. I wouldn't want to have to work those in thick gloves, though. And am still not sure what problems a carabiner solves while diving.

Not sure exactly where it would be required, but I looked at an image of the double gated clip on google and it looks like a double hazard for self clipping. The locking carabiners I have seen might have some utility for lift bags or some other use, but as I indicated, I will avoid attaching a device to my harness that will easily auto-attach.

It seems like the dangers of using the wrong clip are not so high in most situations, but there are better and safer alternatives that are no more expensive, so I follow the rules.

I have lost quite a few pieces of equipment using barrel clips lately. Lift bag, multiple lionfish containers etc.
I am starting to migrate toward long line clips, probably not DIR, but they don't open up on their own, and don't get caught on mesh bags too often.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51FlPhT9r8L._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

 

[lostsheep]

So at best your running a 2:1 safety factor on a good day

What assumptions led you to a less than 2:1 conclusion?

I think your estimate of actual force on a bolt snap is high and your estimate of strength is way low.

I am very tempted to go test one.

That in no way was an argument for or against bolt snaps or carabiners, just a comment on safety factors.

 

[boulderjohn]

Origins

View attachment 813028

View attachment 813029

View attachment 813030

This is the dude that dirt darted past Sally Wahrman dislodging her mask and reg

http://www.joelsilverstein.com/js1/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Doria-2010.pdf

SmarterBoard

Suicide Clips

To draw the conclusion that Ormsby died because of a clip is downright stupidity. He was a dead man once he went into Gimbel's headfirst and overweighted, clip or no clip. According to the book, Ormsby died of drowning after becoming entangled in the wreck. His body was recoverd wrapped in...

scubaboard.com

I think of this whenever I see or hear the term "Suicide clip." If you read the full details of Ormsby's death, you will see a stunning mass of screwups. But when people discuss his death, the one and only reason mentioned is "suicide clips." In reality, he would have died with or without them.

 

[Gone for diving]

Carabiners are very strong, I am sure a bolt snap is not rated for 100lb lift bag,
Especially the Chinese ones, and those nice fancy skinny ones.

So at best your running a 2:1 safety factor on a good day

What assumptions led you to a less than 2:1 conclusion?

My assumption is from, 25 years of fabrication.

On a 100lb lift bag,
are you ok being under the load with this clip?
It probably will hold 100lb, in the right conditions,
But you are relying on one side holding, a perfer a carabiners, because they are latching.

 

[lostsheep]

View attachment 813131

My assumption is from, 25 years of fabrication.

On a 100lb lift bag,
are you ok being under the load with this clip?
It probably will hold 100lb, in the right conditions,
But you are relying on one side holding, a perfer a carabiners, because they are latching.

I’m a 30 year machinist and my degree is in mechanical engineering ; yes I’d hang under that holding 100 lbs without worrying about the material failing. Assuming it wouldn’t unclip is a different issue.