Who's your Favorite BP/W Manufacturer

[GreenDiverDown]

I think we need to understand the dynamics of the poll. There isn't a bias on the poll because of Tobin's regular postings. A bias in a poll means that the results are skewed due to inaccuracies in the polling method, but here this poll is what it is: a tally of the number of people who have chosen to respond to this thread on SB. Let's not try and turn the statistics into something they aren't. The only conclusion one can really draw is that DSS is more popular among the readers here.

What is likely is that the results of this poll do not likely represent the diving population in general since the sample size here on SB is likely more exposed to DSS due to Tobin's participation.

I'll go with that.

There is some bias in the poll, however.

We were asked to list "other" if we mix and match. Many users of brands such as Oxy, Halcyon, Golem and Agir do just that. Most users of DSS products don't do this but prefer to use their rig as a 'system". I would say that that introduces a bias into the poll. I have no doubt that DSS would remain the SB favorite even if this bias was removed. So the poll - as fun as it is - isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

 

[*Floater*]

I am not AGAINST tobin or DSS, I just wanna said that DSS is first on the poll, that IMO there is a biais on the poll because of tobin regular posting..

In elections the order in which candidates are listed impacts the results slightly. In particular, the candidate listed first tends to receive an extra 2% of the vote iirc. However, this is because the people who have not made up their mind before walking into the voting booth tend to break disproportionately in favor of the name they see first because it's the first name they see. People have a natural tendency to stick with something they see or hear first (all else equal) or something that appears above other alternatives.

Since undecideds are not voting in this poll the arrangement of the brands should not skew the results at all.

 

[*Floater*]

We were asked to list "other" if we mix and match. Many users of brands such as Oxy, Halcyon, Golem and Agir do just that. Most users of DSS products don't do this but prefer to use their rig as a 'system". I would say that that introduces a bias into the poll. I have no doubt that DSS would remain the SB favorite even if this bias was removed. So the poll - as fun as it is - isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

Yes, the poll should be be broken up into at least three parts: 1) Best backplate maker or which maker's backplate would you most like to own? 2) Best single tank wing maker or which maker's single tank wing would you most like to own? 3) For Doubles?

You could also divide the backplate category into travel, single tank and double tank backplates, and you could add best travel wing category. And I'm sure there are lots of specialty categories.

FWIW, I currently use DSS backplates (steel and plastic), Oxycheq single wing (Razors) and Halcyon doubles wing (Evolve).

 

[darylm74]

I would love to have a DSS plate, though I own a Koplin. Perhaps I will buy one someday. I still love my Oxycheq wings and just bought a doubles wing from COVCI. I also have a doubles Dive Rite Classic wing which is old and took the tech at my shop to the Doria, Monitor and in caves but as much as he'd like to see me continue with his wing, I still prefer my Oxycheq wings.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Yes, the poll should be be broken up into at least three parts...

You crack me up, man. You are so analytical!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There is some bias in the poll, however.

Of course there is ... it's the nature of polls.

We were asked to list "other" if we mix and match. Many users of brands such as Oxy, Halcyon, Golem and Agir do just that. Most users of DSS products don't do this but prefer to use their rig as a 'system". I would say that that introduces a bias into the poll.

I should think that "other" should have won by a landslide, then.

I have no doubt that DSS would remain the SB favorite even if this bias was removed.

Why?

So the poll - as fun as it is - isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

I don't think a poll which a couple of readers chose to turn into a personal attack against another member is all that much fun.

What we each already know is what gear we prefer, personally. That's really all the poll was asking. Discussing the reasons for those preferences may be useful ... but using that discussion to question the motives and personal integrity of one of the participants is really rather insipid.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Why?

I already said why in my OP. But I like the way jeffrey-c put it best...

What is likely is that the results of this poll do not likely represent the diving population in general since the sample size here on SB is likely more exposed to DSS due to Tobin's participation.

Nothing in my comment or in the comment above suggests that all backplates and wings are alike. Nor do these comments suggest that DSS is lacking in quality or service.

Scubaboarders are smart... if DSS offered crap then they wouldn't be fooled. In my analogy I used Zeagle, Atomic and Oceanic. These are all A rated manufacturers . None of these companies make substandard products. To the contrary... they all lead in products and services. Nor are their offerings exactly the same... they all advertise different features. But the fact remains... you'll find more customers at our shop using Atomic regs because that's what's in our shop. If you ask one of them what kind of reg is their favorite, they will say Atomic! If you go down the street to the shop that sells Zeagle and ask the same, they will say Zeagle! You see that here on Scubaboard just like you do in any shop. While not meaning to disparage any manufacturer I don't believe that this is a situation of the cream rising to the top. IMHO, what we have is a cup full of cream and all of these products are premo.

Now having said all that, I'll add...

The DSS product is unique. It is a killer "STA-less" solution. It is offered at a very competitive price and by all accounts their service is stellar. For these reasons alone, many buyers will prefer to buy a DSS rig. Even if the other brands were more equally represented by their manufacturers, DSS would probably give them a run for their money. But I gotta believe that if JJ or Patrick or Flannagan were SB regulars that the results of this poll would be different. I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

As I have said... I think all of these products are great. Is there a "best"? I don't know. I tend to think that there might not be a "best" wing for everyone but rather a "best" for the individual... and in many cases there may be more than one "best". A DSS or a H or a Golem or an Oxy might be "best" for you but may not be the "best" for me. I think that people in the market for a rig should look more at what would be right for themselves than at what everyone else is buying.

I don't think a poll which a couple of readers chose to turn into a personal attack against another member is all that much fun.

It is possible that no one meant their comments to come across as a "personal attack."
I suppose we ALL would do well to stop and think how our posts may be interpretted by others.

Tobin and I have our disagreements and that is unfortunate. What you guys don't see is how much Tobin and I agree on. Most often when Tobin answers a question about DIVING I find myself saying, "That's exactly what I would have said." In fact, I rarely even 'check' the things he post because I know and trust that his answers are dead on. For that matter, I could say the same about you. So we do have some common ground. Where we go with that is the question. But I'm tired of the bickering and I agree with Lynne... there should be room for all of us to play here without getting sand in our eyes.

 

[Patrick]

If one would ask customers at our shop what their favorite regulator is, most would say Atomic... 'cause that's what we sell. Go down the street to another shop and their customers will say Zeagle... 'cause that's what they sell. Go to another shop and the favorite reg will be Oceanic... 'cause that's what they sell.

Ask which Bp/wing is the favorite here on SB and you will get "DSS"... 'cause... well you get the idea.

If JJ camped on this list, then Halcyon would lead the pack... Oxy would take over if Patrick lived here... and DiveRite would be the leader if Flanagan had 2000 posts.

I 'believe' that in the real world DiveRite is the biggest seller followed by OMS. Halcyon is next. Oxycheq may pass Halcyon in total sales very soon (if they haven't already) and will probably catch OMS in the not too distant future.

Regarding the volume of wings the mfgs you mentioned sell, I would not think you are far off the mark. I might even be #2 right now for all I know. Do believe that DR sells the most of the group.

If any of the mfgs asked all of their customers to join this list and post, I am sure the numbers would be high. While speed reading through this thread I did notice someone's first post was to vote on this thread. Please.

I wish I had more time to spend on the lists, but am generally too busy and imagine most people in this business are.

Best regards,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com

 

[Patrick]

That Oxycheq guy is a monster.

You must be talking about Dwain or Chris. I am cute.

Best regards,

Patrick
--
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com

 

[Patrick]

Anyone who thinks "a plate is a plate" hasn't seen a lot of plates. There is a huge amount of variance out there.

My fave, hands down, is FredT's 12 lb SS heavy plate, finished. The thing could be an exhibit in the New York Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art. It is awesome.

Tobin also has some fairly cool innovations going, specifically the removeable weight plates and the lined slots for the webbing.

Anyone diving dry knows the occasional trim benefits of a heavy plate, and while I own the FredT and love it, the flexibility of Tobin's removable weight plates might appeal to me if I were traveling from cold ocean to warm ocean on a regular basis.

I own three wings, all are Halcyon.

FWIW. YMMV.

You can also use our new Sausage Weight Pocket that fits in the spine of the plate. It adds approx 4 pounds to the plate.

Best regards,

Patrick
---
OxyCheq
http://oxycheq.com