Which Should Come Next?

[TkdDiver]

My buddy and I just completed our Cavern and Intro to Cave courses, we're planning to wait a good while to acquire the cave diving experience needed before we go on to full cave. <= This part I'm good with, but we're hungry to learn more. We talked about taking an Advanced Nitrox and Deco course sometime late summer or early fall to help expand our knowledge and training. I talked to my OW instructor who recommended doing full cave before AN/DP. What do you guys think? I'd like to have some deco training prior to full cave but if doing full cave first is better then we'll plan to do that.

Either way, it'll be next summer at the earliest we'd do full cave vs this summer for AN/DP


Edit: my OW instructor is an experienced technical diver, he teaches OW at my university and I assist hence my asking his opinion.

 

[The Chairman]

Nothing beats experience. Make sure your fin dives outnumber your class dives by at least 10 to 1 before you add more skills. IOW, perfect your current skills before adding more to the mix.

Also, use more than one instructor. I have several instructors and I learn from each of their slants. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[tbone1004]

here's my take on it, so take it with a grain of salt.

Take full cave first. You can do a whole lot in caves being able to make a single jump, or do a traverse, and not rack up deco. I.e. you can spend a year and a half in Peacock without racking up deco if you have the ability to make a traverse or a couple of jumps. Heck, the Grand Traverse does not have mandatory deco if your surface intervals are long enough on the way. I would personally do that sooner rather than later if you trust yourselves to limit your dives to your comfort level. I hate being restricted by not having the training or the c-card, I want to be restricted because I don't have the balls to do that dive yet.

Once you have found that you are surpassed the limits of full cave, PSAI has a great new course out called something like Cave Staged Decompression or something where you learn stage diving techniques and it incorporates AN/DP into that class. Gives you more range in deeper caves like JB or LR when you really need to have the accelerated decompression. Great combined course option that I would like to see brought into other agencies.

Being able to do decompression when you are limited to linear penetrations on 6ths isn't going to do anything for you, however being able to make navigational decisions while diving to thirds is going to open up a lot more caves for you. Only when you have exceeded the limits of full cave, should you find the need to get decompression. NOW, that being said, I am biased in my direction because I was trained in the Peacock area and there are a lot of shallow ish passages and the caves have depth profiles that has you basically doing decompression while on your way out the peanut tunnel, so decompression can be avoided by strategically planning your dive so that while you will obviously exceed NDL's, by the time you get back into the cavern zone, you have no decompression obligation. If you dive primarily in caves up in Marianna, or Ginnie, then you should probably have AN/DP incorporated into your full cave course because caves like Jackson Blue, Little River, and Ginnie are very limiting on penetration due to the chimneys suddenly dropping you down to depth.

 

[The Chairman]

I want to be restricted because I don't have the balls to do that dive yet.

I'm not sure this is what tbone actually meant to write, but it should be noted that testosterone is really hard to breathe. In other words, I would caution allowing your "balls" to establish your limits. Skills, attitude, equipment and training all need to be honored regardless of how rambunctious you may feel. Too much, too soon gets you dead. Savor the dives. Get to know the caves. Get to know yourself. Perfect those skills. Don't burn out. You have a lifetime to discover diving.

 

[kensuf]

There's a pretty good chance you may need some decompression training to complete full cave. Over in the High Springs area, both Little River and Devil's Ear (Ginnie) will likely get you into a few minutes of deco. Talk with your instructor, some are willing to combine Advanced Nitrox/Decompression Procedures with full cave.

In the meantime, go out and do some diving, gain more experience, and have some fun.

 

[uncfnp]

Coming from a student and not an instructor. Why wait? Get your AN/DP while you gain your cave experience. True, cave deco and open water deco has some differences in approach but I see no down side and I personally think it is an advantage to have this foundation prior to full cave.

 

[ajduplessis]

I would first "master" one discipline before moving to the next.

 

[uncfnp]

I would first "master" one discipline before moving to the next.

Not sure I understand the separation of full cave and AN/DP since Apprentice and Full cave can at least theoritically include limited deco and > 40 nitrox gasses. I have AN and have been encouraged to complete DP before I continue in cave. In fact, the NSS-CDS workbook states "it is expected that students at the apprentice level of training are capable of, and should, plan dives with optimum choices in breathing gases and decompression planning." I think PSAI has a similar recommendation. Seems like AD/DP would be a good choice for this in advance unless they do elect to include it as part cave training.

 

[tbone1004]

the issue with that logic is how difficult it is to get into deco while you are limited to sixths, and how limiting not being able to do at least backgas decompression is when you hit full cave. It's a weird issue but part of why I think the GUE progression in cave makes a lot more sense, and why many instructors will combine AN/DP with your full cave course. It's definitely the chicken before the egg. Sure you can practice accelerated deco and do your safety stops on O2 when doing intro level dives, but you certainly aren't going to be able to rack up mandatory deco while on sixths...

 

[TkdDiver]

I'm not sure this is what tbone actually meant to write, but it should be noted that testosterone is really hard to breathe. In other words, I would caution allowing your "balls" to establish your limits. Skills, attitude, equipment and training all need to be honored regardless of how rambunctious you may feel. Too much, too soon gets you dead. Savor the dives. Get to know the caves. Get to know yourself. Perfect those skills. Don't burn out. You have a lifetime to discover diving.

I got the intended message, "I want to be restricted because [of my comfort level]" and not lack of training. I will be getting plenty of dives between training courses. I just like the idea of getting more training in a different environment, allowing me to work on deco in open water without adding the hard overhead complicating the dive.