Which regulator should you donate?

[Uncle Pug]

O-ring once bubbled...
"You can't teach a pig to sing. It does not work and it only annoys the pig."

...we have a singing pig on TDS.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

...we have a singing pig on TDS.

OINK? (Huh?)

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


You got it.

I'm glad you brought up that no system is flawless. It really frightens me that there are divers or just people out there that think some systems are flawless. You know those folks aren't open minded at all and there is no sense trying to get through to them.

The issue of flaws versus flawless all harkens back to the rhetorical question of "how safe do you want to be?"

Anyone who wants to be totally safe does not ever leave their house. Scuba has inherent risks, and running OOA magnifies those risks exponentially.

Protocols have pros and cons. That means they have benefits and flaws, each of them. So lets talk about some major flaws.

In the first place, why would anyone ever run OOA?

1) Because the OOA diver's buddy sucked as a buddy.

We teach divers to monitor their own air supply every few minutes, AND to monitor their buddy's air supply as well. There has to be a major breakdown on both sides of the octo for an OOA emergency to occur.

2) Because the SPG of the OOA diver malfunctioned.

It should still become readily apparent to the buddy that SOMETHING is wrong here, if my own SPG is down to 1000 psi and my buddy's SPG is way up at over 2000 etc.

3) Because the OOA diver's tank wasn't filled completely to begin with?

Nope, that doesn't work as an excuse either, since you are supposed to check each other's SPGs during your predive checks, and every few minutes during the dive.

CONCLUSION: for an OOA emergency to occur, both divers must suck big time.

Talk about flaws. Now we are onto some major flaws.

Now, on to dealing with the OOA situation ...

Totally flawless risk-free protocols of dealing with an OOA buddy:

1) Outswim your OOA buddy to the surface before he/she can get their mits on either of your 2nd stages.

2) Hand to your buddy your slung pony bottle first, THEN outswim your OOA buddy to the surface before he/she can panic and go for either of your 2nd stages.

3) Punch your buddy really hard in the face to knock them unconscious, then perform an unconscious-buddy rescue back to the surface and CPR back to shore.

Those are the only FLAWLESS protocols I can think of at the moment, for an OOA buddy. The rest, involving donating your primary or your secondary 2nd stage all have pros and cons, benefits and flaws.

[Hyperbole warning: see supra re hyperbole.]

 

[detroit diver]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...


So two divers without air during the transfer is NOT a flaw? OK! The fact that you have more potentional for two paniced divers is not a flaw? OK! My bad.

Give me a friggin break.

Let me repeat myself.

If you can't be w/o air for 2 seconds, you should not be diving. You should take up knitting.

This is not a flaw. This is either totally crap training, or standards that are non-existant.

Do you ever blink while you are driving down the freeway? How often does panic set in?

 

[Uncle Pug]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
So two divers without air during the transfer is NOT a flaw? OK! The fact that you have more potentional for two paniced divers is not a flaw? OK! My bad.

When I donate the long hose I am never without air.

I don't die the instant I take the regulator out of my mouth... and I'm certainly not without air... I have some in my lungs and an alternate source under my chin.

And I don't see any reason for panic.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

Is the fact that you have two OOA divers when you give up your primary a flaw or not?

I hope the regulators don't show up and bash me again. I would prefer some real education over nonsense.

 

[scubasean]

O-ring once bubbled...
To borrow from one of my favorite authors...

"You can't teach a pig to sing. It does not work and it only annoys the pig."

ROFLOL.....

I need to keep this in mind when I read these threads.....

A classic indeed....

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

When I donate the long hose I am never without air.

I don't die the instant I take the regulator out of my mouth... and I'm certainly not without air... I have some in my lungs and an alternate source under my chin.

And I don't see any reason for panic.

OK PUG listen up. YOU'RE RIGHT..There should be no reason for panic. Let me repeat that for you . There SHOULD be no reason for panic.

But you are in fact without a reg in your mouth when you donate your primary right? The stuff you call air that is in your lungs is in fact NO longer air. At least I thought the definition of air was roughly 21% O2 and 79% N2. And we all know there are trace gases out there that I haven't mentioned but you get the jist of it. With you body exchanging the O2 in your lungs for CO2...Is this still Air? If you say so...What would I know.

So, if you and your OOA idiot are without regs....Do you both still have air..The answer is NO!

Sorry for the pug bashing...BUT HE STARTED IT...

 

[DiverBuoy]

I've asked this same question directly of MHK in his DIR-F class. The answer is there is minimal acceptable risk.

Your objection (or concern) is similar to the issue of why buddy breathing was years ago bumped lower on OOA ascent methods taught in recreational dive instruction. For example, PADI uses NACBB where (in order of best approach) they are:

N = Normal Ascent
A = Alternate Air Ascent
C = Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent
B = Buddy Breathing Ascent
B = Buoyant Ascent

Notice Buddy Breathing is listed only 1 away from worst-case scenario dumping of weights and rocketing to the surface - go straight to the chamber do not pass GO, do not collect $200. WHY? It was deemed inappropriate to EVER have a scenario where two divers (rescuer included) could be without an air source (even if momentarily) and thus increase the risk of both divers drowning.

 

[roakey]

The new thread about which regulator to donate has been combined with the previously flogged deceased equine.

You might want to go back and reread what was previously stated and if you can't add anything, don't.

Roak