Which DPV?

[tbone1004]

So wait! They pulled the prop to clear a foul and dropped the prop in the ocean and are upset? That's a design flaw? No, that's an idiot's mistake.

no, the foul pulled the prop out apparently

 

[Superlyte27]

no, the foul pulled the prop out apparently

Not possible

 

[tbone1004]

Not possible

give me your genesis and a net, it's possible with that prop design. Not likely, but it is quite possible with the right momentum to have the prop snag at start up and the inertia from the prop spin itself out. It's a very strong magnet, and not likely to happen, but it has happened.

Either way, that isn't the deal breaker for me. The trigger is a deal breaker for me as is the fact that there is no service for them on the east coast. If I was OW diving on the left coast, I'd probably have one, but if anything goes wrong with it, it has to go back to Jon and that doesn't fly for me

 

[Superlyte27]

Again, when was the last time you used a Genesis? The trigger is a non issue, fixed years ago and works effortlessly. It is by far the simplest implementation of a speed controller of any scooter.

I'd be willing to bet you're a Shearwater user. Guess what, no repair facilities on the east coast. It goes where for repair? Washington?

The last time I heard of a scooter issue, Jon paid shipping both ways to make the issue right. You could call him on his cell phone to TS, and if he couldn't fix it, he has demo scooters in Florida to use while yours is being repaired. I don't know how he could provide better customer service than that. Maybe I need to become a repair facility in the east coast.

 

[Superlyte27]

The prop shaft is about 2" x 3" shaft that is male that slides into a female housing. In that shaft are pins that are also male/female, with magnets that easily take 40+ lbs of force to remove. You've better chance of a great white shark trying to drag race you than that prop to accidentally come out.

 

[tbone1004]

Again, when was the last time you used a Genesis? The trigger is a non issue, fixed years ago and works effortlessly. It is by far the simplest implementation of a speed controller of any scooter.

I'd be willing to bet you're a Shearwater user. Guess what, no repair facilities on the east coast. It goes where for repair? Washington?

The last time I heard of a scooter issue, Jon paid shipping both ways to make the issue right. You could call him on his cell phone to TS, and if he couldn't fix it, he has demo scooters in Florida to use while yours is being repaired. I don't know how he could provide better customer service than that. Maybe I need to become a repair facility in the east coast.

I used one about 8 months ago, the speed controller is actually really great, but I ride lefty a lot and it doesn't work well for ambidextrous riding and is especially prone to bumping.

Mailing a Shearwater is a helluva lot easier/cheaper than mailing a scooter. Especially when you can't ship the batteries anymore without crazy hazmat permitting. Battery fails and Jon wants it back to evaluate, you're in a bind because you can't mail it back to him. Something goes in the back end, you're out quite a bit of money to have it shipped both ways, with insurance easily several hundred bucks. I can mail a Shearwater fully insured for like $20.

If he updated the trigger I bet there would be a lot more love for it in cave country and then we may actually see them, but similar to Dive X, they aren't popular in cave country for a reason....

 

[Superlyte27]

He makes left handed triggers if you're so inclined. I switch hands on my righty, but if I were a lefty, I'd definitely order it that way.

It's about $90 to ship it. Jon shipped me 4 recently. Thankfully, if it's broke and it's Jon's fault, he covers it.

 

[Jon Nellis]

old design, hasn't been updated in a decade, horrific trigger, especially in a cave, and there have been a few reports of people who have lost props in blue water because it isn't secured. It's one of the products that I REALLY want to love and get behind, just can't

Allow me to address tbone's points...

1 "old design, hasn't been updated in a decade" - The Genesis has been shipping since 2012. Half a decade, compared to the tail design of tbone's DPV choice, which hasn't been updated since the original Tekna in the 1970's (four decades). That propeller was designed based on an air model for turbine blades, not water, which is why it resembles a blade in an aircraft turbofan engine.

2. "horrific trigger, especially in a cave" - The new trigger design was made standard at the end of 2014 and cannot trap sand, mud or debris behind it, like the original design. The original design is still available on our reversible handle version, since the trigger is symmetrical when changed from right to left handed, but it is mainly for photographers that need to keep their right hand free to work the camera controls.

3 "there have been a few reports of people who have lost props in blue water" - NO THERE HAVE NOT! That sounds like something our competitors made up to scare people into buying their brand. We have never sold an entire propeller assembly to anyone, for any reason. Additionally, no one has ever broken a Genesis propeller blade while diving, which definitely can't be said about the Tekna blade design that was only engineered for 25lbs of thrust, but is used on DPVs with up to 70lbs of thrust (and easily broken blades)

...the props were pulled out after some sort of jam. I'll try to find the reports of it, but they weren't happy when they found the cost of replacement.

Again, NO they were not and you will not find any reports, because they do not exist. To foul the propeller, it has to ingest something through the front of the nozzle, which will only pull the propeller forward, at which point, the magnetic coupling will decouple, allowing the motor to spin with the propeller locked up, but unlike DPVs that use a mechanical clutch that gets damaged when spun, the magnetic coupling just recouples automatically with no damage, when the motor is stopped.

As for left handed operation, I frequently change hands, especially when looking back over my right shoulder, or cruising down a reef with the wall on the right. Most Genesis owners lock their trigger on, once they get a few dives under their belt and are comfortable. With the trigger locked on, it is easy to swap hands without having to try to keep a finger on the trigger as you swap hands, so it does not stop. The DPV can still be stopped by turning the speed control to zero (redundant OFF) and the right handed handle can be controlled by the pinky finger on your left hand with a little practice. The trigger lock is easy to disengage, by simply dragging a finger across it.

Cheers,
Jon


(... edited for spelling)

 

[northernone]

Allow me to address tbone's points...

1 "old design, hasn't been updated in a decade" - The Genesis has been shipping since 2012. Half a decade, compared to the tail design of tbone's DPV choice, which hasn't been updated since the original Tekna in the 1970's (four decades). That propeller was designed based on an air model for turbine blades, not water, which is why it resembles a blade in an aircraft turbofan engine.

2. "horrific trigger, especially in a cave" - The new trigger design was made standard at the end of 2014 and cannot trap sand, mud or debris behind it, like the original design. The original design is still available on our reversible handle version, since the trigger is symmetrical when change from right to left handed, but it is mainly for photographers that need to keep their right hand free to work the camera controls.

3 "there have been a few reports of people who have lost props in blue water" - NO THERE HAVE NOT! That sounds like something our competitors made up the scare people into buying their brand. We have never sold an entire propeller assembly to anyone, for any reason. Additionally, no one has ever broken a Genesis propeller blade while diving, which definitely can't be said about the Tekna blade design that was only engineered for 25lbs of thrust, but is used on DPVs with up to 70lbs of thrust (and easily broken blades)



Again, NO they were not and you will not find any reports, because they do not exist. To foul the propeller, it has to ingest something through the front of the nozzle, which will only pull the propeller forward, at which point, the magnetic coupling will decouple, allowing the motor to spin with the propeller locked up, but unlike DPVs that use a mechanical clutch that gets damaged when spun, the magnetic couple just recouples automatically with no damage, when the motor is stopped.

As for left handed operation, I frequently change hands, especially when looking back over my right shoulder, or cruising down a reef with the wall on the right. Most Genesis owners lock their trigger on, once they get a few dives under their belt and are comfortable. With the trigger locked on, it is easy to swap hands without having to try to keep a finger on the trigger as you swap hands, so it does not stop. The DPV can still be stopped by turning the speed control to zero (redundant OFF) and the right handed handle can be controlled by the pinky finger on your left hand with a little practice. The trigger lock is easy to disengage, by simple dragging a finger across it.

Cheers,
Jon

Thank you for a thoughtful fact check regarding this design. I appreciate articulate explanation.

Regards,
Cameron

 

[JohnnyC]

The biggest problem with the Genesis is that, like most scooters, they're way too effing expensive.