BadFish
Guest
I did ditch a buddy at a bar one time, he ran out of beer money.
When to Ditch your Buddy
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Hmmm... Who's ditchin' who here? To remain a buddy team requires effort from *both* buddies. If you are a good buddy then your buddy can't "wander off" because *you* will be the one who "sticks by my side like glue."
I find it useful to designate a leader of the team, whose principle responsibility is navigation, while the "wingman" has the burden of sticking with the lead. Lead changes can be frequent or not at all, as the team desires, but there should never be any doubt who has the lead and who doesn't. The signal for "I want the lead" is to tap your forehead and point at yourself - the acknowledgement is for the old leader to tap his [her] forehead and point at the new leader. These signals can be reversed in their order when the leader wants the other buddy to lead for awhile - but in either case the lead change is positively initiated and positively acknowledged. A good leader will frequently check on his buddy's position as well.
Bottom line - if your buddy is "wandering off" you may be surprised to find that his [her] evaluation of the situation is that *you* wandered off, both of you thinking it's the other's responsibility to maintain buddy team integrity. It is a shared responsibility.
Rick
sea nmf
Contributor
I did ditch a dive buddy. But it was sort of a bluff and I don't know if I really would have. Here's the scenario:
I was a new diver - maybe 25 dives under my belt. The buddy was a friend of my brother's who just certified the day before the trip. We were a threesome buddy team.
This was the 5th dive of the trip (Belize - in the middle of the ocean on the way to the Blue Hole).
We were not accompanied by a DM on the dive. They simply instructed us to turn around at 1000 psi and head back. (Great vis).
At 1000 psi I signaled to both my brother and his friend that we needed to turn around and head back. My brother agreed but his friend shook his head no. I repeated the signal and added emphasis with my facial expression. He still shook his head no.
So I turned around and headed back without him. After about a minute, my brother joined me. We both ditched him. Eventually he turned around and joined us.
I told him on the boat that I would no longer dive with him. I buddied up with strangers the rest of the trip.
I was a new diver - maybe 25 dives under my belt. The buddy was a friend of my brother's who just certified the day before the trip. We were a threesome buddy team.
This was the 5th dive of the trip (Belize - in the middle of the ocean on the way to the Blue Hole).
We were not accompanied by a DM on the dive. They simply instructed us to turn around at 1000 psi and head back. (Great vis).
At 1000 psi I signaled to both my brother and his friend that we needed to turn around and head back. My brother agreed but his friend shook his head no. I repeated the signal and added emphasis with my facial expression. He still shook his head no.
So I turned around and headed back without him. After about a minute, my brother joined me. We both ditched him. Eventually he turned around and joined us.
I told him on the boat that I would no longer dive with him. I buddied up with strangers the rest of the trip.
ScubaScott
Guest
Totally agree with Rick - buddy team requires effort from both buddies. One should be in charge of navigation, or dive flag, whatever, and the others main concern should be watching his buddy and making sure things don't go against the dive plan. Always seems to be another side to the story.......
there are times when all the planning in the world does not help, thats when it is called an accident
ill give you an example when things can go wrong without any one to blame where you will have to leave your buddy, simply couse you cant help him/her.
Think that you are diving a wall and the bottom is around 400feet
you are somewhere around 100 feet down and diving, when you suddenly see a cloud of bubbles raise from your buddy, he starts to sink rapidly and fills air into his BCD, it doesnt help. he still sinks, you try to get to him but he is sinking to fast, your computer alarm goes off, stating you are to deep now !!!!
he is still sinking he is now around 200 feet and has a clouded judgement (narcosis + panic) and he tries to ditch his weightbelt, it doesnt work he still sinks couse the neoprene in his 7mm weatsuit is now very compressed and doesnt help much to get him floating. His tanks and all other gear are dragging him down towards the bottom.
all of this because a faulty dumpvalve
noones fault, it was an accident but you will have to leave him since you cant even reach him, he will have to ditch everythiing and do an emergency ascent.
If his judgement is to clouded and he doesnt dump the tanks (who would like to dump the airtanks at this point ??) he will be dragged to the bottom.
what I am trying to say is that **** happens and this is something that have happened to me (faulty dumpvalve) but I was lucky enough to figure out how to get everything going again, but it took some time to understand what actually was wrong.
and I was not in any immediate danger since I was in only 30 feet of water and the bottom was at around 45 feet and had loads of air left. it was my buddy who showed me that the valve was leaking and viola we fixed it, temporarily.
so leaving a buddy is something we all might have to do no matter how much we try to prevent accidents from happening and dive within our and our buddys limits.
ill give you an example when things can go wrong without any one to blame where you will have to leave your buddy, simply couse you cant help him/her.
Think that you are diving a wall and the bottom is around 400feet
you are somewhere around 100 feet down and diving, when you suddenly see a cloud of bubbles raise from your buddy, he starts to sink rapidly and fills air into his BCD, it doesnt help. he still sinks, you try to get to him but he is sinking to fast, your computer alarm goes off, stating you are to deep now !!!!
he is still sinking he is now around 200 feet and has a clouded judgement (narcosis + panic) and he tries to ditch his weightbelt, it doesnt work he still sinks couse the neoprene in his 7mm weatsuit is now very compressed and doesnt help much to get him floating. His tanks and all other gear are dragging him down towards the bottom.
all of this because a faulty dumpvalve
noones fault, it was an accident but you will have to leave him since you cant even reach him, he will have to ditch everythiing and do an emergency ascent.
If his judgement is to clouded and he doesnt dump the tanks (who would like to dump the airtanks at this point ??) he will be dragged to the bottom.
what I am trying to say is that **** happens and this is something that have happened to me (faulty dumpvalve) but I was lucky enough to figure out how to get everything going again, but it took some time to understand what actually was wrong.
and I was not in any immediate danger since I was in only 30 feet of water and the bottom was at around 45 feet and had loads of air left. it was my buddy who showed me that the valve was leaking and viola we fixed it, temporarily.
so leaving a buddy is something we all might have to do no matter how much we try to prevent accidents from happening and dive within our and our buddys limits.
OP
Hobbs....
Step outside of yourself for a moment here and re-read your post...
Read it as if you were reading some one else's post...
Read it critically....
Evaluate the reasoning of the poster....
The conclusion for the premise....
The hypothetical given as an example....
The example given as a substantiation....
The conclusion drawn from????
Now....
Why were you in no danger???
Why were you able to resolve the situation???
Why are you not in danger of your buddy plummeting to 400fsw...
well I am sorry but I dont understand what you are trying to say,
but I will try to make things clearer of the parts that I do understand that you are pointing out.
I was trying to make a point, and the point was:
sometimes an accident happens and when it does, no matter what you have planned or how safe you have tried to dive
you might have to leave your buddy.
I tried to give an example to that with the story of the diver who had a faulty dump valve.
and to show that a faulty dumpvalve isnt that far fetched I shared my own experience of when I had that type of accident.
reasons for not being in danger when i had my accident are as follows in no particular order:
confined space (quarrel)
maximum deapth of 45 feet
loads of air left
I could actually pull off fins and walk out of the quarrel if needed.
Buddy there to assist since we didnt go down more then around 30 feet
all those reasons made me feel that I was in no immediate danger
and instead of dumping bcd with tanks and/or weightbelt to get out of the situation we merely "fixed" my faulty valve.
if I am miss reading your answer please tell me what you are trying to point out.
but I will try to make things clearer of the parts that I do understand that you are pointing out.
I was trying to make a point, and the point was:
sometimes an accident happens and when it does, no matter what you have planned or how safe you have tried to dive
you might have to leave your buddy.
I tried to give an example to that with the story of the diver who had a faulty dump valve.
and to show that a faulty dumpvalve isnt that far fetched I shared my own experience of when I had that type of accident.
reasons for not being in danger when i had my accident are as follows in no particular order:
confined space (quarrel)
maximum deapth of 45 feet
loads of air left
I could actually pull off fins and walk out of the quarrel if needed.
Buddy there to assist since we didnt go down more then around 30 feet
all those reasons made me feel that I was in no immediate danger
and instead of dumping bcd with tanks and/or weightbelt to get out of the situation we merely "fixed" my faulty valve.
if I am miss reading your answer please tell me what you are trying to point out.
watergal
Guest
I hope I would never ditch a buddy.
But several times I have had a buddy decide to go deeper or stay longer than our plan. If (s)he is not having a problem, but is chosing to change a plan beyond what I consider safe, I consider that to be him ditching me. When that happens, I remind him of the plan, let him know I am sticking with it, and get out. And don't dive with him again.
I do not claim this is correct, just my philosophy.
But several times I have had a buddy decide to go deeper or stay longer than our plan. If (s)he is not having a problem, but is chosing to change a plan beyond what I consider safe, I consider that to be him ditching me. When that happens, I remind him of the plan, let him know I am sticking with it, and get out. And don't dive with him again.
I do not claim this is correct, just my philosophy.
OP
You jumped to far to get to your pre-conclusion....
You were safe for all of the above reasons.... plus the buddy...
A dump valve could (and in your case did) fail....
But you are far to smart to take a faulty piece of equiment on a 450fsw wall dive.... you take care of your gear... now.....
And you are far to smart to dive with a buddy who has faulty equipment on a 450fsw wall dive....
And you are smart enough to be aware of your surroundings and yourself and your buddy and stop the chain of events before they get to the point of your illustration....
Imaginning the senario is fine....
But don't use it to look for *the reason I ditched my buddy*
Look for a chain of events that you and your buddy break early...
Because you Hobbs, are a smart diver!!!
Arduous
Contributor
Hi Rick Murchison:
Originally posted my Rick
Hmmm... Who's ditchin' who here?
When Im on a dive with someone and I stop to take note of something and they just continue to swim on, never looking back, never checking on me, never taking note of my position, then I have been ditched. If I stopped because I was snagged on something, because I had an equipment failure, because I was having chest pain (whatever) and they just fin off, then where is the buddy system? I dive in the turbid waters of New England. The visibility around here is at times 12 feet or less. You do not have to do too much fining to loose sight of someone in 12 feet of visibility. When I dive with someone I am always taking note of their position. I am often taking hold of their gauges and reading their remaining gas and bottom times.
When I dive with more than one diver and they are all going in different directions ( which is often the case), then who do I stay with and who do I leave ? If I dive with say 3 other divers and two are going off in one direction and one in another, then Ill go with the one, as not to leave him alone. But what about when theres only three of us diving and two are going off in different directions, which one to I ditch ? Which one do I go with ? Neither one is worried about me, or looking back to see where I am. On one particular dive, I timed how long it took my so called buddy to look back at me while we were diving. It was just over 12 minutes before he glanced back to see if I was there. I feel much more comfortable and confident when Im diving solo.
When diving solo, Im not worried about chasing around others and I can just enjoy my dive. ( Not that I dont enjoy diving with others, because I do ). When I dive with that rare buddy who, sticks with me, checks on my location often, checks my gauges and gas supply and looks to see how Im handling the dive, (is my head on straight / am I stressed ) this is the kind of buddy that makes diving the most enjoyable for me and I think for others as well.
Dive Safe ..Arduous
Originally posted my Rick
Hmmm... Who's ditchin' who here?
When Im on a dive with someone and I stop to take note of something and they just continue to swim on, never looking back, never checking on me, never taking note of my position, then I have been ditched. If I stopped because I was snagged on something, because I had an equipment failure, because I was having chest pain (whatever) and they just fin off, then where is the buddy system? I dive in the turbid waters of New England. The visibility around here is at times 12 feet or less. You do not have to do too much fining to loose sight of someone in 12 feet of visibility. When I dive with someone I am always taking note of their position. I am often taking hold of their gauges and reading their remaining gas and bottom times.
When I dive with more than one diver and they are all going in different directions ( which is often the case), then who do I stay with and who do I leave ? If I dive with say 3 other divers and two are going off in one direction and one in another, then Ill go with the one, as not to leave him alone. But what about when theres only three of us diving and two are going off in different directions, which one to I ditch ? Which one do I go with ? Neither one is worried about me, or looking back to see where I am. On one particular dive, I timed how long it took my so called buddy to look back at me while we were diving. It was just over 12 minutes before he glanced back to see if I was there. I feel much more comfortable and confident when Im diving solo.
When diving solo, Im not worried about chasing around others and I can just enjoy my dive. ( Not that I dont enjoy diving with others, because I do ). When I dive with that rare buddy who, sticks with me, checks on my location often, checks my gauges and gas supply and looks to see how Im handling the dive, (is my head on straight / am I stressed ) this is the kind of buddy that makes diving the most enjoyable for me and I think for others as well.
Dive Safe ..Arduous
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