When mask comes off at 100 ft ......

[Blackwood]

If you wear a hood putting the mask underneath the hood pretty much gaurantees you will not lose the mask. Could still break it though.

Exactly. I recently had the lens of a mask (Mares X-vision) delaminate from the frame mid dive. Needless to say, it ceased to be a mask. Had I put my strap under my HOOD, I'd had have to remove IT (or at the very least pull it back) to remove the broken mask. That's not something I'd enjoy doing anywhere a mask is mandatory, including SoCal. If memory serves, it was 48 deg at depth that morning.


We regularly practice mask-off ascents (which tend to be a mixture of eyes open and eyes closed and tight squinting, depending on the temperature). So when I am inevitably asked why I always stuff a spare mask into my pocket, my answer is simple: I dive to see stuff underwater. Can I complete a dive without a mask? Yes. Do I want to? No; that defeats my primary purpose. I've also lost a mask on a particularly brutal day at the beach. No pocket spare means an additional trip back up and down the stairs in full gear. Ugh.

 

[Blackwood]

Number 2 - You cannot monitor your depth at all on ascent, to even begin to maintain a safe ascent rate. I understand you can feel the pressure changes in your ears, but maybe I'm just a crappy diver, but I can't gauge my depth or ascent rate based on the pressure in my ears.

I CAN however tell you if I'm stationary, descending or ascending, but not at what depth and what rate (specifically - of course painful ears means too fast, but you get the picture) I believe it's physically impossible to safely complete a dive on your own with no mask.

With the proper gear and skill sets, you can accomplish all of the bolded things.

* Having your mask knocked off shouldn't affect your buoyancy/position. That's part of the skill set.
* You can dive with an SMB on a spool or reel holding at least as much line as your maximum depth. That's part of the gear set.
* Shooting said SMB shouldn't affect your buoyancy/position in the water. That's another part of the skill set.

Shoot a bag, leave the spool behind, and go up the line hand over hand (I didn't suggest reeling it up as that's additional task loading in an already tense situation). If you tie knots in your line at even intervals you'll be able to estimate your ascent rate, but it's pretty hard to go too fast when you're ascending 4-5 inches at a time.

I don't think the above is ludicrous. It's simply one solution (which in good conscious I can't take credit for) to the problem in question. I'm sure there are others as well. Personally, I've never been able to use the "bubble mask." I have trouble focusing that close to my face.

 

[SPG3K]

With the proper gear and skill sets, you can accomplish all of the bolded things.

* Having your mask knocked off shouldn't affect your buoyancy/position. That's part of the skill set.
* You can dive with an SMB on a spool or reel holding at least as much line as your maximum depth. That's part of the gear set.
* Shooting said SMB shouldn't affect your buoyancy/position in the water. That's another part of the skill set.

Shoot a bag, leave the spool behind, and go up the line hand over hand (I didn't suggest reeling it up as that's additional task loading in an already tense situation). If you tie knots in your line at even intervals you'll be able to estimate your ascent rate, but it's pretty hard to go too fast when you're ascending 4-5 inches at a time.

I don't think the above is ludicrous. It's simply one solution (which in good conscious I can't take credit for) to the problem in question. I'm sure there are others as well. Personally, I've never been able to use the "bubble mask." I have trouble focusing that close to my face.

That's a really practical solution, actually.

I never though to tie knots in my reel at intervals.

I could even make ascents using the interval knots a every-dive-that-permits so it would start to be almost second nature. I can already do a free, safe, controlled, proper ascent, why not work on a different method now to broaden my skillset.

 

[Lost Fin]

I accidentally found the "bubbles as your mask" technique during a pool session. It works, at least when you have the time and patience to position your hands around your eyes. I might put entire arm around the face or just cup hands around the eyes. Wouldn't count on being able to finish difficult dive with that only, but it does help checking on small things or finding that transparent mask floating somewhere below you.

 

[peterbj7]

Shoot a bag, leave the spool behind, and go up the line hand over hand (I didn't suggest reeling it up as that's additional task loading in an already tense situation)

I can't disagree more. With a well-designed reel it's far easier and safer to reel the line in. It's also far easier to use the line that's still out to maintain a predictable depth. If the line is pulled in as you suggest the task loading is way greater, and there's a high risk of entanglement. If the design of your reel requires that you look at it whilst reeling in, get another reel. What would you do at night? Besides, people's vision without a mask varies enormously - some seem to be barely impaired and can still read gauges with a bit of a squint, others are effectively blind.

It's incredibly easy to go up too fast if you're holding a slack line, and with just a hand grip on the line that's probably going to be the case even in warm water. In fact, I'd say it's the main problem. You need to have a line that you know will not allow you to go deeper, and then make yourself slightly negatively buoyant against it. That's preferable at all times (in the open ocean), but essential when you can't see.

 

[Blackwood]

I can't disagree more. With a well-designed reel it's far easier and safer to reel the line in. It's also far easier to use the line that's still out to maintain a predictable depth. If the line is pulled in as you suggest the task loading is way greater, and there's a high risk of entanglement. If the design of your reel requires that you look at it whilst reeling in, get another reel. What would you do at night? Besides, people's vision without a mask varies enormously - some seem to be barely impaired and can still read gauges with a bit of a squint, others are effectively blind.

I was thinking of a spool when I wrote that. I agree. If you are on a reel, by all means, reel it up. Personally, I'm not sure I'd like to come up on a spool, and that may point to a deficiency in my skill set.

You need to have a line that you know will not allow you to go deeper, and then make yourself slightly negatively buoyant against it. That's preferable at all times (in the open ocean), but essential when you can't see.

Good point. It is a good idea to add tension to the line between you and the surface to assure that you aren't going down and that it's not floating up. But that can be accomplished with or without the spool/reel in hand.

 

[peterbj7]

I hadn't spotted the word "spool" - I apologise. I use spools when i need to lay out line, eg in a cave or when surveying, but I think they're totally unsuitable for use with an SMB. For that purpose I use a ratcheting reel, and after trying many I long ago settled on AP Valves' Buddy Reel. It's fully enclosed and line entanglement cannot happen (and in maybe 2000 dives it hasn't). It only carries 40 mtr of line, but for SMB use that is ample. Because it's so safe in use and when stowed, I leave it permanently attached to my SMB as that saves a few seconds in deployment.

There are other types of ratcheting reel commonly used in the UK, but they're all open and subject to entanglement to varying extents. They're also all much larger. The Buddy Reel isn't perfect and could be improved (for all I know, the current model could have those improvements) but intelligent use and maintenance overcomes those problems. It's the best solution I've ever come across.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

Personally, I don't like the idea of a mask secured on a lanyard - just one more entanglement hazard. I always carry a spare mask in my pocket and practice mask removal in shallow water frequently. Once you've done it a few times, the thought of having the mask knocked off at depth becomes little more than a nuisance rather than anything to worry about.

 

[peterbj7]

Me neither. I carry my spare mask around my neck. If I need to give the mask to someone else (which is what usually happens) I drop my regulator, take my own mask off, remove the spare, put my own back on, and retrieve my reg whilst handing the mask over. Takes longer to write than to do. If the other person has actually lost their mask I'll usually put the spare in their hand before worrying about my reg.

Equally, I never dive with a long hose around my neck, so that won't be in the way of the mask. Makes me feel claustrophobic, and it's an undeniable entanglement hazard. I stow that elsewhere and breathe from the short hose.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I carry my spare mask around my neck. If I need to give the mask to someone else (which is what usually happens) I drop my regulator, take my own mask off, remove the spare, put my own back on, and retrieve my reg whilst handing the mask over. Takes longer to write than to do. If the other person has actually lost their mask I'll usually put the spare in their hand before worrying about my reg.

You carry a spare mask around your neck? In Belize? On every dive? And you have given other divers your mask how many times? And how many times have you used the spare 'cause you had to?

I have been doing mostly resort intro dives, full time for the past 3 years; I don't recall having my mask dislodged more than just a small partial flood and none of my students have ever lost a mask. If they aren't ready for open water, don't take them to open water!

I use older Cressie Big Eyes, and the strap clips can loose a tab on occasion. With a not too tight strap it still works for many recreational dives until a second tab fails. For instructional dives, one lost tab is too many, but if my strap failed on a dive, I would just hold it to my face with one hand and abort the dive.

All my masks have black skirts so unless the bottom is black I can see it just fine without a mask. On a night dive tie the glow stick to the mask strap if you are that paranoid. No stop recreational diving does not require a spare mask unless you are Inspector Clouseau.

This thread has played out; It's like a side window curtain air bag Volvo driver compared to a rice rocket rider. There should be a Volvo divers forum and threads like this should be sent there after 4 pages of replies.