When mask comes off at 100 ft ......

[SPG3K]

If losing a mask underwater in a simple open water dive is a "panic" button or even a fear due to saltwater stinging or burning then my opinion is you might not should be diving until it isn't. Yes, it burns, tough it out, walk it off, get over it and just do it.

If your in an overhead environment then spare masks and all of these extras make some sense, for a simple dive, how much extra stuff or you going to carry to eliminate every possible fear or concern when the real answer is to know how to and to be capable of and to be comfortable with the concept of doing without. Nobody should get a certification unless you can operate without your mask and perform all skills without it.

N

I've been a fish since I was little. I learned to swim 3 days after I learned how to walk. (8 months old) I grew up in and around and underwater in multiple pools and oceans worldwide. I have zero problems opening my eyes underwater, including in the ocean.

That being said:

The comments about "being able to do all your dive stuff with no mask" are great, and all.. but there is one major problem with the theories, which is why I have a piece of shock cord that keeps mine attached. I don't know about the rest of you - but I've lost buddies before. And I have less than 30 logged dives.

Assuming, if you want a worst case scenario, that your buddy kicks your mask off and keeps swimming after you have been underwater for (X) minutes at (X-X) feet intermittently on a wreck/wall etc.

Again, I don't know about you all, but I can't compute the tables in my head, and if I am using my computer for a rec dive, I usually don't carry the tables backed up on a slate. Call me stupid, I just don't see the need for it.

So, number 1 - If you have no mask - you can't see your computer OR your slate to even begin to worry about "continuing" the dive. It's impossible to do it safely with no backup or contingency if your buddy is gone. No one can focus their eyes underwater to the extent of reading a gauge.

Number 2 - You cannot monitor your depth at all on ascent, to even begin to maintain a safe ascent rate. I understand you can feel the pressure changes in your ears, but maybe I'm just a crappy diver, but I can't gauge my depth or ascent rate based on the pressure in my ears.

I CAN however tell you if I'm stationary, descending or ascending, but not at what depth and what rate (specifically - of course painful ears means too fast, but you get the picture) I believe it's physically impossible to safely complete a dive on your own with no mask. To assume so or to ridicule others for their lack of said ability is ludicrous.

There is a difference between being able to comfortably open your eyes underwater and being able to complete a dive. I believe everyone needs to be able to comfortably open their eyes underwater, but the ability or lack thereof has no bearing on a safely completed dive.

If you can't read your gauges, your making a "guesstimate" ascent or a CESA depending on the severity of your situation. (Barring backup methods). Maybe you could calculate form your current depth how long it SHOULD take you to get to the surface and try to swim accordingly, but again, all guesstimates.

Long story short:

It's ludicrous to assume ANYONE can finish a dive "safely" to the extent a GUE diver would consider safe with no mask on, unless you have a backup or a buddy.

The in/ability to open your eyes underwater or be comfortable therein is irrelevant. Someone with eyes closed cannot make any safer ascent that someone with eyes open, save maybe to see the hull of the boat they are about to hit at the surface.

This means you MUST have a contingency plan. Not just "get used to it, it burns."

You can be used to it all you want, but it's not gonna get you home safely. You need a spare mask or a means with which to recover your primary.

Lets end with the macho crap about "don't be a diver if you can't open your eyes underwater."

I can go a whole dive, clearing my mask to the extent of removing it completely from my face and head and never open my eyes, and I can dive and ascend just fine without panicking. (I don't, but just to put it out there) I've already had the mask kicked from my face twice. I was able to find it by opening my eyes and reaching for it. No biggie.

EDIT:

I do agree that all divers should perform all skill without mask. Thats critical.

My post addresses safely ascending from depth with no mask. Just wanted to put that out there. Mask/less skills are one of the most important things you learn, I think.

 

[vicdiver656]

I have done 12 dives, and have practiced taking off my mask in almost every dive, and I found that if it gets kicked off, you can just cover the front of your face with your hands (including your reg) and exhale through your reg. If you leave a little slit between your hands when you exhale, so you can just see through, you'll find that the air trapped in you hands will act as another mask, and you will be able to look around. I know it sounds like a wife's tale, but it really does work.

In ANY situation where your mask does get kicked off, keep your cool, and ask your buddy to find it for you if you can't see it.

Hope that helps,
Taylor
Vicdiver656

 

[TSandM]

I don't think anybody is saying that you should be able to execute a perfect ascent and stops without your mask and without your buddy. That's one of the reasons we carry spare masks. It's also one of the reasons we have buddies. The likelihood of having to execute a maskless ascent is so low that GUE doesn't require that you do it any more. Even AG admits that maskless ascents are more an exercise in your comfort with your mask off than they are a useful skill. But being able to pull out a spare mask, put it on and clear it, without losing buoyancy control or your composure, THAT's a useful skill.

 

[Nemrod]

SPG3K most of your statements are based on incorrect or incomplete assumptions. First, I and many others can read analog guages without a mask and many were taught to do so during basic scuba. If your on a no overhead (which means no deco) dive then you do not have to complete the dive except to complete it safely in that you should be able to return safely to the surface or a safe point of exit. Very few people outside of scubaboard actually carry extra masks and tanks and special swimbuddies with magical GUE powers. Most of us just learn to be enough at ease that we can get along--including without a mask. You can also as decribed immediantly above see well enough by forming a bubble mask.

Yes, divers should know their deco tables by memory and be able to compute simple no deco dives in their head and since you should already have a plan and since you should be on that plan then you know your deco status and a safe and simple return to the surface or exit point will not require complex deco computations on the fly. If your on an overhead/deco dive then you should be prepared for that eventuallity including perhaps having an extra if that floats your boat.


SPG3K says:

"There is a difference between being able to comfortably open your eyes underwater and being able to complete a dive. I believe everyone needs to be able to comfortably open their eyes underwater, but the ability or lack thereof has no bearing on a safely completed dive."

Well, no, that would also be wrong, sorry but if you cannot complete a dive without fear of opening and using your eyes underwater then you should learn to do so.


SPG3K says:

"If you can't read your gauges, your making a "guesstimate" ascent or a CESA depending on the severity of your situation. (Barring backup methods). Maybe you could calculate form your current depth how long it SHOULD take you to get to the surface and try to swim accordingly, but again, all guesstimates."

No, first, most computers give an audible alert upon exceeding the acsent rate, secondly, high contrast analog guages and watches can be read sufficiently without a mask. You can see the needle positon and if you are familiar with your guages (and you should be) then you can approximate your remaining air, time, depth from needle positon with enough accuracy to complete the dive to a safe conclusion.

SPG3K says:

"Lets end with the macho crap about "don't be a diver if you can't open your eyes underwater."

Macho or not, you will be a better diver if you can, so, let's not end it and your kidding yourself if you think having this skill is simply playing macho and of no value.

N

 

[Nemrod]

SPG3K says:

"It's ludicrous to assume ANYONE can finish a dive "safely" to the extent a GUE diver would consider safe with no mask on, unless you have a backup or a buddy. "

Oh really, I don't agree. You may not can, but I can and lot's of divers I know can and I or they don't have magical GUE powers but I at least have Nemrod powers. This stuff is just not hard to do.

SPG3K says:

"And I have less than 30 logged dives. "

Well, that is an excellent start but 30 dives hardly makes you an authority on anything even if you were born with gills. And, the considerable water skills you already have will make you a better diver, in time you will see that and based on my 40 plus years as an active diver I will stand with what I have said. Good luck with your new sport, adios.

N

 

[InTheDrink]

Any special thoughts re contact lenses? Do they just float off or will the stay on? I practise flooding my mask without any issues, but haven't practised swimming eyes open for any length (And I wear contacts). Guess it doesn't make much difference, but be interested if anyone can confirm/reject my gueses. Thanks`

 

[Bob]

I can read my guages underwater with no mask on. In a worst case scenario, lost mask, no buddy, an ow diver, in ow should be able to make a safe assent to the surface. This shouldn't be a huge issue. almtree: Bob

 

[SPG3K]

Hmmm.

I guess I have to try this bubble mask thing. Will test in the pool this evening.

My VT3 is definitely not readable with no mask on, though.

 

[scubafool]

Any special thoughts re contact lenses? Do they just float off or will the stay on? I practise flooding my mask without any issues, but haven't practised swimming eyes open for any length (And I wear contacts). Guess it doesn't make much difference, but be interested if anyone can confirm/reject my gueses. Thanks`

I wear contacts, and I spend some time every dive or so with my mask off and eyes open.

I have had lenses come out, on more than one occasion, so you can loose them doing this. However, that has been a rare occurence for me. The great majority of the time, the lenses stay put just fine. However, I ALWAYS have a spare set in my gear bag, just in case.

My lenses are the disposable type, and at the end of a dive day, I dispose of them, and put in a fresh set the next morning. I see no reason to tempt an infection with as cheap as my lenses are.

Your results may vary from mine. I suspect that how well your lenses stay in is relative to how well they fit your eye.

 

[RJP]

Take some deep breaths while adapting to the freezing water on my face, get spare mask out of pocket and fit it. If i can see the lost mask nearby i'll pick it up. If not i wont.

Yup