What's your pony setup?

[loosenit2]

This topic is always interesting on SB as it is another example of the tec slant of the board. At no point in my PADI OW, AOW Rescue, or specialty courses did course material ever talk about UW valve manipulation or it being a necessary skill. The first course I have taken that specifically addresses the skill is the SDI solo course. In the few other agencies course material I have reviewed GUE is the only one that does. It would be interesting to hear if any others do.

Before I took the solo course I started diving doubles, enroute to tec training. As a part of that I self taught and practiced valve drills with doubles and made adjustments to my pony setup to ensure I could do them in a singles/pony setup as well. Nothing in rec diving drove me to do any of this, it was all a result of moving towards technical diving. Group think on SB seems to have transferred technical diving skills to recreational diving where it is largely not taught.

 

[kelemvor]

This topic is always interesting on SB as it is another example of the tec slant of the board. At no point in my PADI OW, AOW Rescue, or specialty courses did course material ever talk about UW valve manipulation or it being a necessary skill. The first course I have taken that specifically addresses the skill is the SDI solo course. In the few other agencies course material I have reviewed GUE is the only one that does. It would be interesting to hear if any others do.

Before I took the solo course I started diving doubles, enroute to tec training. As a part of that I self taught and practiced valve drills with doubles and made adjustments to my pony setup to ensure I could do them in a singles/pony setup as well. Nothing in rec diving drove me to do any of this, it was all a result of moving towards technical diving. Group think on SB seems to have transferred technical diving skills to recreational diving where it is largely not taught.

This thread is in the "solo divers" subsection of advanced diving, not basic.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

This topic is always interesting on SB as it is another example of the tec slant of the board. At no point in my PADI OW, AOW Rescue, or specialty courses did course material ever talk about UW valve manipulation or it being a necessary skill. The first course I have taken that specifically addresses the skill is the SDI solo course. In the few other agencies course material I have reviewed GUE is the only one that does. It would be interesting to hear if any others do.

Before I took the solo course I started diving doubles, enroute to tec training. As a part of that I self taught and practiced valve drills with doubles and made adjustments to my pony setup to ensure I could do them in a singles/pony setup as well. Nothing in rec diving drove me to do any of this, it was all a result of moving towards technical diving. Group think on SB seems to have transferred technical diving skills to recreational diving where it is largely not taught.

As @kelemvor said, we are in the solo subsection of advanced diving.

That being said, I think being able to manipulate your valve is a beneficial skill to have, even as a recreational diver, covered in a course or self taught. More so for a solo diver.

 

[Rollin Bonz]

Your post was in response to part of my post that you quoted where I wrote "not possible".

The entire quote was: "Not possible [that I would have significantly less gas than I expected] if you have a transmitter monitoring the gas in your pony bottle".

I suppose it's "possible" that my tank mounted transmitter could malfunction and indicate more gas than I actually have. I should have posted "The odds are so incredibly small of that happening it's beyond the realm of practical consideration".

Heck if we can't trust our computers then why do we rely on them in the first place?

Cool, we agree.

Nothing is "not possible" when it comes to preparing for an equipment failure.

You can reach your tank valve.

 

[Subcooled]

I'm taking the SDI Solo class soon and am looking into a pony rig. Something between a 19 and a 40 I imagine. What do you use, how are you carrying it?

An emergency ascent from 60 feet is very simple.

First of all it is 1/2 of the distance you can do horizontally on one breath without beeing an athlete. I am not talking about what can be done comfortably. I am talking about what can be done without passing out (my limit is about 60m or 180ft horizontal, swimming suit, no fins). Freediving is a wonderfull pursuit. Try it for a while! And, oh, if you breathe overpressure oxygen (=scuba) then you will have some extra time. Carbon dioxide will feel bad anyway, but **** happens.

Second, as you ascend (from 60ft), the relative overpressure in you scuba cylinder will grow and will give you a number of extra breaths. I know this both from theory and from actual practice (was not a drill). I was wearing a rather small 7 litre cylinder monkey style. Breathed it empty at 60ft, got more breaths on ascent.

I am absolutely sure, that ANY air cylinder, be it 10 or 19 or 40, will be a wonderfull and usefull thing if you only can keep your head calm when **** hits the fan.

Two moderately sized sidemounted cylinders is a stress-free and balanced solution. Equally used, they can be trusted.

 

[markmud]

Guess I missed the question... I've only "practiced" with it a handful of times. Once I've got the reg in my mouth, there isn't any difference from using the regular backmount cylinder. My "normal" is to orally inflate my bcd at the surface so there's no change there if my main tank is unusable. If I was really on the pony (not practicing) I would not consider a safety stop, I'm going straight up unless I'm in deco (which I have never had an "accidental" deco obligation). I normally orally inflate my SMB, so the procedure there does not change if I'm on the pony. Generally if I actually have to use the pony, dive's over immediately.

I might have to be re-educated. I didn't do any real dives (outside my pool) in 2020. There's a plague going around or something... not sure of the details .

Hey kelemvor,

Thanks for responding. I enjoy corresponding with you.

You said it. Once you are on your pony bottle the diving is no different. It is really easy. Inhale, exhale, and ascend slowly until you hit the big SCUBA tank in the sky. I just don't get the pony bottle wars. Dive and let dive.

thanks again,
m

 

[Wibble]

My 'pony' setup...

A manifolded twinset, sidemount or CCR with bailouts.

Those all have more than enough gas for the entire dive and all have redundancy to turn a 'disaster' into a minor inconvenience using your normal switching.

If renting, then would make up a sidemount set from ali80s or 7 litre (dunno what you call those).

I simply don't like the principle of a pony; a small amount of gas just for emergency. I like to be able to breathe from my 'backup' at any time; it's usage should be normal on every dive.

YMMV

 

[Gareth J]

My 'pony' setup...

A manifolded twinset, sidemount or CCR with bailouts.

Those all have more than enough gas for the entire dive and all have redundancy to turn a 'disaster' into a minor inconvenience using your normal switching.

If renting, then would make up a sidemount set from ali80s or 7 litre (dunno what you call those).

I simply don't like the principle of a pony; a small amount of gas just for emergency. I like to be able to breathe from my 'backup' at any time; it's usage should be normal on every dive.

YMMV

7's

 

[Gareth J]

@Wibble

In the UK cylinders are generally referred to by the cylinder water capacity.

Hence a 7 litre cylinder cylinder is a 7. A 12 litre cylinder, a 12, etc.

Metric units make things very easy.
A 12 litre cylinder with 200 bar [1] fill pressure has 2400 litres of gas.
A surface breathing rate of 20 litres a minute (which is a bit high)[2], at 20m give 3x20 = 60 litres a minute at 20m [3].
2400/60 gives 40 minutes of gas 2(40/3) = 26 minutes of dive time, 13 minute turn pressure with a third in reserve (66 bar).

Gareth

[1] 1 bar = 14.7 psi

[2] We use 25 l/min for teaching purposes, a large number of divers are at 15l/min or less.
[3] 10m = 33ft, 20m = 66ft. For every 10m depth of water, pressure increase 1 bar, so at 20m absolute pressure is 3 bar.
[4] A normal (lower pressure ?) cylinder fill pressure is 232 bar, most divers assume a 220 bar fill (to allow for cooling). Below 210, you assume you have been short changed .

 

[Wibble]

So easy using SI units. Staggeringly difficult using traditional non-integrated units.

I get really konfuzed with this nominal working volume but not knowing the pressure.

E.g. how much gas is in this tank with this pressure.
SI units: wet volume (litres) x pressure (bar/ata) = litres of gas at the surface