What's with the UTD haters?

[gearhound]

Yes, it's on page 57-60 of the UTD Student and Diver Procedures Manual, right after the standard procedure for doing a gas switch with a backmount system. It's described in excruciating detail, right down to the expected hand signals and buddy positioning.

Is it what Kev is talking about? Because those ones sound a little bit more complicated than what I was taught.

I'll actually apologize to you SanDiegoSidemount. I think you got your answer, but now we've turned your thread into a clash of personalities. I think you guys need a better "defender of the realm". UTD looks to have a great training program and sounds like some great instructors. And that's what every agency needs. I wish you well diving. And hey, I'll donate a long hose to you whatever system you're diving.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

The differences between the Z and backmount procedures are related to purging and connecting the QC-6 and confirming the gas source by "breathing down" the regulator before opening the valve on the new source.

Just about everything else is the same, backmount or Z-System. The backmount procedure actually has more steps (28 vs 24).

---------- Post added February 12th, 2014 at 04:26 PM ----------

Is it what Kev is talking about? Because those ones sound a little bit more complicated than what I was taught.

Kev's description of the sequence is a little bit out of order. Standard procedure with the Z after confirming MOD and plugging the new gas in (valve off, typically on the left) is to breathe down the old gas source (typically the right bottle) before opening the valve on the new source.

I use a similar procedure when switching between back gas bottles on the Z. Old source off, breathe down, new source on. About the same complexity as a reg switch in traditional SM, which is to say, pretty easy for any competent diver.

 

[gearhound]

I appreciate the info SanDiegoSidemount!

I have to point out that your procedures for backmount and sidemount are different then. In which case, the manifold does not keep the universality between, backmount, sidemount or CCR. I will agree (without having actually tried it) that the procedures would be easy to follow for a competent diver. But that's the argument for donating the long hose with independent cylinders in regular side mount.

To each, their own! It sounds like you know what you're doing. And I hope it sounds like I know what I'm doing.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

I have to point out that your procedures for backmount and sidemount are different then. In which case, the manifold does not keep the universality between, backmount, sidemount or CCR.

Indeed, they are different. Touché!

About 4 steps differ, and 4 are missing compared to backmount. Some are as minor as "purge the [deco] second stage" and "put [deco] hose over the head".

Other procedures like S-drill are closer to 100% consistent, but "consistency" is not the reason I personally chose the Z. For me, it's more about versatility.

To each, their own! It sounds like you know what you're doing. And I hope it sounds like I know what I'm doing.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Indeed, they are different. Touché!

About 4 steps differ, and 4 are missing compared to backmount. Some are as minor as "purge the [deco] second stage" and "put [deco] hose over the head".

Other procedures like S-drill are closer to 100% consistent, but "consistency" is not the reason I personally chose the Z. For me, it's more about versatility.

Well consistency on long-hose donation is my preference --even everything I learned during AG's X-Scooter Class of six years ago still applies with the Z-system sidemount today (e.g. donating OOG & teammate's scooter tow procedure is exactly the same).

I don't know how or care to figure out how to do this with separate regs exclusively in the classic independent doubles sidemount paradigm. . .

 

[kelemvor]

I haven't been around SB that long, only a few months.

However, in that short time, I've encountered some pretty harsh backlash more than once when I've mentioned that I dive a UTD Z-System (and like it), or mention that I admire how well UTD trains divers.

What gives? Is there something I'm missing here? Some raging argument or hurt feelings from years past? Please enlighten me.

1. It's the internet, and it's scubaboard. Every agency or configuration or piece of gear is the object of someone's ire on here. No exceptions. I don't think I've seen any piece of kit or organization that someone doesn't like for some reason. Heck, there are even DAN haters on here. Diverse and passionate opinions abound.

2. I've seen others post that they don't like the Z-System because it adds additional failure points or something along those lines. Probably amplified focus on this since UTD (as I understand things) is DIR and GUE does not have a similarly endorsed system.

3. UTD is DIR. UTD and GUE are the object of more hatred than most agencies. Perhaps because of the perception of DIR folks being a bit elitist. I've only met one DIR guy (at the last scubaboard megadive) and although he was boisterous, he didn't strike me as an elitist.

That's my take on it. Enjoy your UTD Z-System, I say. If you switch to regular sidemount, you'll have the backmount crowd naysaying you. If you switch to backmount, someone with an opinion against that config will take exception.

 

[gearhound]

Well consistency on long-hose donation is my preference --even everything I learned during AG's X-Scooter Class of six years ago still applies with the Z-system sidemount today (e.g. donating OOG & teammate's scooter tow procedure is exactly the same).

I don't know how or care to figure out how to do this with separate regs exclusively in the classic independent doubles sidemount paradigm. . .

Kev, you need to stay quiet, the adults are talking now.
You can't figure out how to reach up with your right hand and grab a hose to donate? I can.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Kev, you need to stay quiet, the adults are talking now.
You can't figure out how to reach up with your right hand and grab a hose to donate? I can.

You need to stay relevant son . . .and not be rhetorically trolling & obfuscating, you "un-facetious" gearhound you!

Using the same base essential fundamental long-hose techniques since GUE Fundies over ten years ago, with today's applied Z-system sidemount building on that foundation; no diddling with break-away clips, or dealing with separate independent doubles solutions that I never worked with in the first place. . .

 

[gearhound]

You need to stay relevant son . . .and not be rhetorically trolling & obfuscating, you "un-facetious" gearhound you!

Using the same base essential fundamental long-hose techniques since GUE Fundies over ten years ago, with today's applied Z-system sidemount building on that foundation; no diddling with break-away clips, or dealing with separate independent doubles solutions that I never worked with in the first place. . .

Really? So you've been turning your valves on and off during your dives for the last ten years? How is diving with only one bottle on at a time not independent? People talk about the QC6 being the failure point, what about the extra OPV that you have to have on each first stage? And that is not how they teach gas switches in GUE.

I think SanDiegoSidemount and I have been having a logical discussion. I believe all you have done is brag about how much money you can spend.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

3. UTD is DIR. UTD and GUE are the object of more hatred than most agencies.

[tongueincheek]

... and in some parts of the world they can be like Sunni and Shia ... looking down on all the infidels, but absolutely loathing each other ... :shocked2:

[/tongueincheek]

... Bob (Grateful Diver)