What's with the UTD haters?

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For the sake of convenience, not having to switch regulators they have taken an elegant and simple diving system known as independent sidemount and introduced multiple failure points which they have to mitigate with numerous drills, skills and a stupid little OC regulator on a QC6 tucked into the drysuit pocket.

This really is true.

Something tells me KevRumbo will chime in soon with Truk references. 5....4.....3.....2....
 
ya but you dont have to use that manifold.... what else is wrong with the harness and the air cell? i cant find one thread that has complaints about those.
 
I really don't care about how others choose to dive and try not to criticize anyone else (unless it is obvious their practices are unsafe). I've known a number of GUE, UTD and DIR divers who are fantastic divers... and some who have never received much current training at all who also are. There are those who would criticize my diving as well, but I suggest they just let me continue to dive solo. It's been like that for more than 50 years and I'm still alive. Hopefully that streak will continue for a few more decades!
 
ya but you dont have to use that manifold.... what else is wrong with the harness and the air cell? i cant find one thread that has complaints about those.
The harness is a direct copy, and I mean direct copy, of the Razor. And I've heard the rumours about the origin of the design of the air cell, but that's neither here nor there. The z-trim has its limitations, most noticeably in tight caves. However, the vast majority of users will not be venturing into tight caves, so I think that point is moot also. If you're having fun with it, more power to you.
 
The harness is a direct copy, and I mean direct copy, of the Razor.

A lot of people do seem to take offense at this fact. I'm not sure why it's a big deal. (As long as there's no patent infringement.) At this point, just about every Hogarthian harness and backplate is a copy of every other one as well.

Maybe Voit Scuba will return from the grave to sue them all for using 2" webbing to strap a tank to a person's back?
 
SDS, some of the issues are real, and some are political, and they go WAY back.

UTD was started by Andrew Georgitsis and Jeff Seckendorff. I don't know Jeff's history, really, but I know a fair bit of Andrew's. He was training director for GUE for a period of time, and was the designer of the Fundamentals class. He had a falling out with the organization in about 2005 or 6, and left; he had a virtual dive shop in Monterey called 5thD-X for a time, but that eventually fizzled, and he started UTD. His core ideals are similar to GUE's: Standardized equipment and procedures, standard gases, and high standards for training and performance. But unlike GUE, Andrew tried to incorporate sidemount and CCR into a single model that would permit mixed team diving in a seamless fashion. This is one of the areas where there is a lot of controversy and negativity. Neither the core DIR folks nor the CCR folks liked the UTD CCR setup; neither the core DIR folks nor the dedicated sidemount people like the manifolded sidemount arrangement (and for good reason, in my opinion).

So you start with the fact that about 90% of the diving world that is even aware of what the DIR approach is, doesn't like it, and you add that two-thirds of the DIR world don't like some of what AG and Jeff are doing, and you end up backed into a corner where you aren't very popular.

Two of the best instructors in Seattle are UTD instructors. I took my Tech class from Brian Wiederspan and respect him and Jeanna enormously. I dive 25/25, because I think it's a gas that makes sense for the dives I do, even though it isn't a GUE standard gas. So you can see that I am not a UTD-hater, because I have taken their classes (I've got a card from AG). But I think there are things that are worth criticizing.
 
I do not have experience with the UTD SM system but have looked at it and read about it.
I will not comment on it as I have not used it.
What I will comment on is the philosophies and teachings there is a great value in learning from them.
I studied DIR as well and learn from them as well.

On the topic of haters, well the world is full of them! You must learn to deal with them.
I have learned valuable lessons, ideas, techniques from other agencies, instructors, even militant members of some of these.
A different perspective / opinion on diving is welcome in my circle however as I am open I expect others to be as well.
Just because I do not agree doesn't mean I HATE on them. There is a difference.

You only have to research dive history to find there are gold nuggets everywhere!
A divers challenge is open to learning being a ever evolving student.
Embrace the things that work and see through the drama.
Safe diving and keep the fun in diving after all it is what it is about!

CamG
 
AG has developed and been using the QC6/block manifold system since 1996 and the first Wakulla push beyond 10k linear feet to 14k, on the big old "fridge" PSCR/Pre-RB80 rebreather: no problems with "failure points" back then . . .and none that I've heard about or experienced at all while using the Z-sidemount system.
 
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