Whats the best setup for a new guy!

[Mverick]

A plastic backpack as you call it could also be set up for Duals. It was pretty standard. And they do make a plastic backplates as your calling them. But they are basicly one in the same. Just an evolution.

And I dive singles more than duals. And still use a backplate and 27lb wing. Since it packs smaller with less weight. Aluminum plate only weighs 2lbs. And my Dive Rite BC weighs more than my backplate set up.

And actually, like I said, I work with a dive shop. I work with new divers in the pool and in the lakes regularly. So I get to see them get all freaky with the gear. And learning a backplate or a standard jacket bc isn't any different. They are both new to them. They have to learn either one. If you slap 5lbs on the butt of the AL80 it floats them head up at the surface. And they all still need more for there weight belt.

And on the tank sitting farther away from your back because of the bulge. Most Jacket BC's have a pad on the back and a plastic tank support that happens to hold it a little off your back too. So really that argument doesn't hold up well.

Backplates aren't for everyone. Some don't like them. But your arguments aren't accurate why not to like them.

Good arguments would be

I want to stay verticle.
I don't like it pushing my face in the water at the surface. "which can be fixed by trim"
For Photography it's easier to get into position. "which is a maybe reason"

But a backplate was definately set up for both singles and duals.

I'm trying to give accurate info to a newbie. Not cloud it with misinformation. The things you had said just weren't true. I don't care what gear you like. As long as you like it. And tell him why you like it. But when you start talking about how backplates are meant for duals. Well, I'm gonna correct you. Cause they ain't just for duals. If there was a better more comfortable set up for singles I'd buy it. For me, there isn't. Maybe for you or others there is. But give the guy the right info.

 

[seamuseg]

Mverick where did you get your Apeks TX50/DS4 reg and what did it cost you? Been checking prices and looks to be around 500.00
thx

 

[jeffsterinsf]

Pricing on Apeks is steep locally in the US, primarily due to the agreements LDS have to sign to get a dealership for the major lines. Best prices a US shop can show on a receipt and retain their dealership is, I believe 10% below the "list price." Watch out for local dealers who artifically inflate the prices to make you think you're getting a great deal. You can call AquaLung and they will give you the list prices over the phone.

Alternatives include diveinn and simplyscuba in Europe (I believe both authorized dealers) and leisurepro in the US (grey market). Advantages and disadvantages for both. Lots of threads, search on "mail order" or any of those names. Warranty is the big issue.

My last notes show ATX50 at $295 and ATX200 at $413, delivered to the US. Add an ATX40 octo and you can get the ATX50/ATX40 combo for $384, $546 for the ATX200/ATX40.

I was lucky enough to find an apparently reputable LDS that provided "equivalent value" to get me close enough in price to buy locally.

You have plenty of time -- just get a good mask, I didn't see that on your list...

(glad to see you made it through the discussion of tech equipment )

 

[seamuseg]

Thanks Jeff,

Yes didn't mention about a mask because I really need to try on a wide selection. I have a few masks that I have used for snorkeling but one is very uncomfortable and the other one doesn't make a good seal. I new I would have to just go and try them till I find a good one. Thx for the tips on reg purchase!:mean:

 

[jeffsterinsf]

I'm not a "normal" shaped guy and I find rental wetsuits a disaster for keeping warm. You'll probably be diving Monterey, which can be on the chilly side. You may want to look into a wetsuit (or drysuit, with the proper training) before the rest of the rig. See how things go...

 

[seamuseg]

Yep Monteray is right. Getting a wetsuit/dry for sure. What reg do you use and do you prefer wet or dry suit?
Cya

 

[leadweight]

As I predicted, the backplate brigade is out in force attempting to convert a new diver. The single tank/double tank thing is more of a fine point compared to the real issue with backplates, which is comfort. My experience is that the straps tended to bind under my arms leading to a case of sore armpits. Guys, dont bother to offer explanations like setup.

New Diver, definitely do not buy a backplate without trying one because they are very different from conventional equipment in their usage and feel. You will also find it difficult to rent one because it takes so much time for the LDS to set up the BP harness to fit you.

If you are into photography (which is vastly more popular than technical diving), Mverick correctly stated that jackets would suit you better. There are all kinds of deals on jackets, including a rather nice one from Diverite for $259 through divers discount. At the high end Scubapro and Seaquest have some nice jackets.

For back bouyancy Zeagle has a nice line and the best warranty around. Zeagle is enormously popular to the extent that I see about 50 Zeagle BC's for every backplate when diving in tropical waters. The buzz around here would make you think it was the other way around. The less expensive Zeagle models (Scout and Escape) are a better buy IMO. Try to avoid the fancy "technical" back inflation models from the major gear manufacturers as they are expensive, bulky, heavy and have oversize air bags which are difficult to manage. While a few people around here will tell you they ditched their Transpac 2 for a BP, I really can't think of a nicer single tank rig when equipped with the compact 30# travel wing.

My preference in masks is to go with black. Fit is everything. Just go to the LDS and start trying them on. Some of the cheaper masks from outfits like H20 work better than stuff that costs twice as much.

 

[sig]

seamuseg,

In my opinion you can't go wrong having both a drysuit and a wetsuit. I would start out with a wetsuit and if you start to dive on several occassions then go ahead and fork out the money for a drysuit. Your wetsuit will alway have a use. As for choice, Xcel makes a good wetsuit as well as Bare and some others. The most important thing is fit. I prefer to dive dry because I do most of my diving in N. Calif at lake Tahoe where it is cold year around. When I hit the coast though I usually pull out the wetsuit.

The Apeks regs are great and I hear the same about Scubapro's line. Apeks appears to be better pricing but maybe that is just in my area. Either one I'm sure you will be happy if you stay in the with there top line. Choose one that is enviromentally sealed and balanced. For the Apeks I would at least go for the TX 50.

As leadweight has pointed out there are allot of us who like backplates on this board and there is good reason. I asked a similiar question on this board when I started and I didn't try the plate as I should have. Well now I have a plate and just sold my Zeagle. Trying the BC's out and knowing which route you are going with your diving will end up making your decision pretty easy. The reason you don't see more backplates in my opinion is because there are only a few companies that have them while the companies that market the rest of the BC's not only have a huge line of there own BC's but there are several more companies marketing back inflatable and Jacket style BC's. Just because you see more of them doesn't make them better. It also doesn't make them wrong for you either. But we here on the board want you to know what all your choices are so you don't spend money on something you'll end up getting rid of.

 

[Mverick]

Backplate Brigade....LOL... You people kill me....

Once again. Make an argument about why it's worse. Calling people names just means you can't come up with much. Is kinda dumb. Sore underarms? What kinda suit were you wearing. I wear a Drysuit and don't even feel the straps. And I also used it in Cancun and Coz with a t shirt or a 3mm and although I felt it It wasn't any worse then my transpac. But you might have had a problem. Though it's not what I or my friends have experienced when they are set up right. And no. All my friends don't use them either. Some just don't want to buy more gear.

And I said to try different gear. I never said buy a backplate they're the only way to go. You're just reading your own beliefs into it.

And I paid $152 for my TX50/DS4's. Diveinn had a sale. They were selling them for $250 or so before. And no, they don't have any more. I think they only sell the ATX50's now. But I'm not sure. Pick gear that you can get serviced locally. It makes it much easier. I service my own gear so I don't worry about it. But I have regs that haven't been opened up for 3 years. Not recomended but I have spares.

And suggesting not to buy one isn't really the best idea either. Extreme exposure has a program where you buy it and if you don't like it within 30 days send it back for a full refund. Except you pay shipping. Ask any other gear manufacturer if you can do that. Come on, Tell me one. So yes, it's a good deal. If you don't like it send it back. Shipping would be cheaper then rental fee's. The reason I don't like regular BC's is the squeeze when you inflate them. They keep you vertical and I swim Horizontal. And they have to large of aircells for a single 80. In general. Some have added things that compensate but I don't know any that have gotten it all right.

Simplyscuba.com
Diveinn.com

are both cheap on dive gear. Sometimes it's cheaper at other places though so look around. And these are out of the country dealers. So service if you have a problem with an item might be slow. Since you'd have to send it back. Hometown dealers almost always offer the best service if you're new.

And I have a drysuit and a 7mm wetsuit and a 3mm wetsuit and a .5mm skin. I never use my 7mm anymore. if it's colder then the 3mm can handle I use the drysuit. But it's a big expense for just starting out. And rental suits stink. So getting a nice wetsuit might be nice.

 

[leadweight]

Mverick,

You think "backplate brigade" is name calling? Come on & take a happy pill.

By the way, I had on a 3/2 shorty for most of the week and put a 3 mil full over the shorty for some cool fresh water cavern touring. If you can dive a BP in a t-shirt you are tough. As far as I am concerned a 3 mil is probably the minimum. It seems like the dry suit divers like the backplates the most because they have lots of padding.

There is one other comfort issue to look out for and that is the plate digging into the lower back. This has been reported by others around here.

The harness is very difficult to adjust because of the stiff webbing and because it is a trial and error deal. It just cant be adjusted while in the water. This may be one of the main reaasons that backplates do not sell as well as conventional gear. When switching from dry to wet the harness will most likely need to be readjusted. It is not unusual for divers to own several BP's for this reason. GI3 says he has 4 of them, 3 AL 1 SS.

I also really don't like the way that the tank (single) is far from the divers back. It increases whatever leverage (positive or negative bouyancy) the tank has on the diver. The Halcyon Pioneer wings bring the tank about 1/2 inch closer, but many complain of stability problems and use a metal STA anyway.