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What's going on with SUUNTO?

Discussion in 'General Scuba Equipment Discussions' started by BikerBecca, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Glenn Williams

    Glenn Williams Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    162
    45
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    It appears they were just deep stops with just one mandatory stop at the conclusion of the dive. However as I said before, if a deco obligation is missed for more than 3 minutes the suunto will lock you out.

    The Perdix will not.

    This is all I have been trying to say

    Glenn
     
  2. NothingClever

    NothingClever Barracuda

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Red Sea and Atlantic Ocean
    375
    408
    63
    Hey, Glenn....hope you had some good Argentinian beef while you were down south.

    At 25 minutes total dive time at a max depth of 105ft (with a BT of about 7 seven minutes) closed off with a gradual ascent, this is a recreational dive profile where a routine safety stop will very likely have your Nitrogen off-gassing requirements handled.

    Deep stops and decompression stops are pertinent to technical diving. Using those terms when reviewing a recreational dive probably generated the confusion.

    If the picture of your dive profile is exemplary, then I'd offer that your computers are far more capable than what's required for your diving. That's not inherently bad but be careful not to let the technical features of the computers lead you to perceive your dive is technical in nature. This would be akin to using F1 race language to describe a casual drive about town for errands.

    And on the flip side, get some technical training if you want to expand your OW boundaries.
     
  3. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

    2,655
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    What makes you think you had a mandatory (deco) stop?

    There is no ceiling showing on this dive. With an SI of 22 hours you probably had a no stop time of 17 minutes at 100ft, you spent maybe 10 minutes there and were up at 65 or 70 by the time your 100ft NDL would have been up.

    Are you sure you didn’t get a single minute extended safety stop? You can ignore those with the consequences being a shorter NDL on the next dive.
     
    Diving Dubai likes this.
  4. Glenn Williams

    Glenn Williams Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    162
    45
    28
    At the time, I was not aware that I had deep stops turned on. So I took the alarms to be mandatory. During the dive I received stop alarms and I did the commitment each time.

    This was my 3rd dive on our scheduled 6 dives during our vacation.

    Again my thought process was that it was a deco stop due to being at 105 feet even short in duration. I did not have any more issues with deep stops on the rest of our dives.

    Anyway as I have stated before. I am an OC Recreational diver. At this time not technical. And as many of you have stated the suunto will lock you out if you miss a decompression stop for more than 3 minutes after surfacing. In my mind at the time of the dive I perceived the alarms to be deco stops, they were not, except for the mandatory stop at then end which can be seen in the picture I posted.
     
  5. KenGordon

    KenGordon Rebreather Pilot

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    None of your stops were deco stops, the ‘mandatory’ stop was not a deco stop. If any were the DM5 picture would show another line representing your ceiling, ie the shallowest allowed depth. At all times on that profile you could return directly to the surface within the bounds of risk the computer finds acceptable.

    Here on SB a lot of rubbish gets talked about how computers behave, people have favourites and some will complain about the behaviour of some brands. Part of that is this business about lockout on most computers.

    It is quite hard to lockout a Suunto. You have to get into deco, which can be hard without running low on gas, not notice you are in deco, and then surface before the stop is done. That means you had to either be completely ignoring what is going on or had an actual deco stop longer than a typical safety stop. I have seen this happen once, actually a Cressi, due to a rapid ascent with deco owing while deploying a DSMB.

    The wording of the manuals may be to blame.

    There are deep stops, basically one or two minute Pyle style stops at half max depth or half the depth (not exactly but you get the idea) since the last one or so. These are optional but skipping them is recorded. If you get stops at 17m or 11m it is likely one of these.

    There are real deco stops. This is when you have an actual limit on how shallow you can go without exceeding you nitrogen over pressure limits. They start at 3m and get deeper if you stay a long time. For example, after a 60m 25 minute dive a Zoop might have a ceiling of 7 to 9m. You MUST do these stops. The computer will explicitly tell you there is a CEIL. If you go above the ceiling you get an arrow pointing down. If more that for 3 minutes and it will go into error mode and just show depth and time. Note that the time to surface figure assumes you do stops at the ceiling depth. So if you have 10 minutes at 3m it will take longer at 6m. This is because your off gassing gradient is smaller and you get rid of the gas more slowly, not because dive computer programmers cannot count time.

    Next there are so called ‘mandatory safety stops’, these are usually an extra minute extending the regular 3 minute safety stop. These are optional but if you ignore them the NDL on the next dive may be reduced slightly. You get these for ignoring deep stops, ascending too quickly, maybe having an excessively sawtooth profile. This vagueness is held up as a terrible thing by SB posters and reason to pay twice as much for a computer that ignores those things.

    Then there are actual safety stops. 3 minutes if you go below 10m. These are optional too, but again if you ignore them your NDL on the next dive may be reduced. You SHOULD do safety stops as they are very effective.

    Unless you have a ceiling indicated you are not in deco. When you go into deco Zoop and the like beep and tell you. Now you will have a time to surface displayed which looks like a big scary number but is actually 1 minute of deco stop, depth/10 minutes of ascent time (E.g. 3), possibly 1 minute of so called ‘mandatory’ stop, 3 minutes of safety stop and maybe a minute to surface, so 7 or 8 minutes. Usually people are slow at ascending and the actual stop has gone by the time they get to 6m.
     
    tridacna, NothingClever and JackD342 like this.
  6. Jcp2

    Jcp2 Literally virtually diving ScubaBoard Supporter

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    I think part of the confusion here is with regards to terminology and teaching. The Suunto will lock up after a missed deco stop for 48 hours (manual section 3.2, p 11-12). The Suunto has three types of stops: safety, deep, and deco. (manual section 3.8 p 17). The Suunto recommends a 3 minute safety stop for all dives greater than 10 m (manual section 3.24, p 29-30). It looks like the last stop is the 3 minute safety stop, which is optional, but many times misremembered by divers as a "must do" because it's so heavily emphasized as such in typical OW training, and done routinely when diving with a group leader.

    edit: I see that I must have cross posted with the comment above.
     
  7. Glenn Williams

    Glenn Williams Nassau Grouper

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    162
    45
    28
    When looking at the dive on my laptop at the safety stop one of the caution triangles says mandatory.

    Glenn
     
  8. NothingClever

    NothingClever Barracuda

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Red Sea and Atlantic Ocean
    375
    408
    63
    Glenn,

    I’d figure out how to turn those off and stick to using your computer in recreational mode. As long as you don’t stay longer than your ABT, you can focus on enjoying your dives with family rather than faffing about with technical decompression procedures.
     
  9. Jcp2

    Jcp2 Literally virtually diving ScubaBoard Supporter

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    I think that was the "mandatory" safety stop because of a higher than desired ascent rate (manual 3.2 p 12). The "mandatory" is in quotations because no safety stop is ever mandatory, otherwise it would be a deco stop. Skipping the "mandatory" safety stop will result in a penalty in the subsequent dive, not algorithm lockout for 48 hours. Skipping a recommended stop will not result in a penalty, but Suunto (and OW training) still recommends a safety stop (for additional safety). That's why some divers wear a separate watch; to manually time a safety stop that they perform even when their computer does not indicate the need for one by calculation (mine doesn't). Other divers follow their computer and perform one only when recommended by calculation.
     
    KenGordon likes this.
  10. scrane

    scrane Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Boise, ID.
    957
    636
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    I once used a zoop as a backup for a more liberal Oceanic computer and had no trouble driving it into lockout.
    I can't understand where the idea of not being able to go into deco on a standard single tank comes from. It's easy to go into deco. Coming out the other side is the hard part.
     
    yle likes this.

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