Whatever happened with the abused Stingrays?

[ggunn]

I'm not a big fan of the tree hugger crowd and I'm all in favor of responsible use of nature. I just see a big difference between raising animals from birth for a purpose and catching fully grown animals out of their natural habitat and sticking them in a small cage for people to gawk at. If they want to raise stingrays from birth in captivity, I have no problem with it. Then it's just like keeping fish in an aquarium as far as I'm concerned.

I'm probably going to regret this...

I remember reading a study in the Scientific American a few years back where it was established that the length of a goldfish's memory is something on the order of twelve seconds. It doesn't make any difference to the stingray if it was raised in captivity or captured fully grown; it doesn't remember. Visualizing the plight of the stingray is just anthropomorphization. What about those poor lobsters and dungeness crabs in tanks in fish markets just waiting for someone to buy them, take them home, and throw them live into boiling water? Yum. Pass the shell cracker, please. ;^)

 

[1KWIK_69]

I'm probably going to regret this...

I remember reading a study in the Scientific American a few years back where it was established that the length of a goldfish's memory is something on the order of twelve seconds. It doesn't make any difference to the stingray if it was raised in captivity or captured fully grown; it doesn't remember. Visualizing the plight of the stingray is just anthropomorphization. What about those poor lobsters and dungeness crabs in tanks in fish markets just waiting for someone to buy them, take them home, and throw them live into boiling water? Yum. Pass the shell cracker, please. ;^)

Stop it! You're making me HUNGRY!!!!!

 

[don Francisco]

Sorry to get on such a soapbox on this topic but I think if these venues, and animal acts in circus' were banned, our society (and the animals)would be better off.

Maybe we should set up adjacent soapboxes. I'm not a fan of these operations, and fully agree with you that folks should vote with their dollars by not patronizing them.

Where we part company is that the belief that they should be banned.

First, while I vote with my dollars, I'm not willing to have others vote for me by proxy and banning things, even things those I find detestable.

Secondly, it's too easy to say something stinks and should be banned. Unfortunately we all engage in activities that others think stink and should be banned. If we go down the road of banning all things bad (and we've gone too far already) the arguments both valid and specious that we raise could and will be turned against us in the future.

Part of the price of living in a free society is having to put up with all manner of BS from others who are excercising their freedoms. Voltaire summed it up best when he said "I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

 

[Jupiter31]

Maybe we should set up adjacent soapboxes. I'm not a fan of these operations, and fully agree with you that folks should vote with their dollars by not patronizing them.

Where we part company is that the belief that they should be banned.

First, while I vote with my dollars, I'm not willing to have others vote for me by proxy and banning things, even things those I find detestable.

Secondly, it's too easy to say something stinks and should be banned. Unfortunately we all engage in activities that others think stink and should be banned. If we go down the road of banning all things bad (and we've gone too far already) the arguments both valid and specious that we raise could and will be turned against us in the future.

Part of the price of living in a free society is having to put up with all manner of BS from others who are excercising their freedoms. Voltaire summed it up best when he said "I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

You make sense and I promise this is my last post on this subject (proobably...!!)

We could share that soapbox b/c we likely agree on much; hell, my politics are much closer to libertarian than anything else.

My thing is the animals don't have a say - if someone chooses to smoke, for example, or drink, or eat red meat, do drugs, not exersise, or not wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle, or any number of other things, I'm OK with it so long as my rights are respected.

The animal(s) has no say in the matter - thats why I hate the places in question - and no, I don't think animals are the equal of humans and yes, the point can be taken to the ridiculus.

 

[morecowbells]

It makes me remember when I was young and did not finish my meal. My Mom told me that an animal died for this meal and to just toss it out like rubbish was sinful (okay, she is a Catholic with a knack for instilling the guilt factor). That point stays with me today. I love animals but am not a vegetarian. I know that we are the superior and smarter species and that some of these animals were put on earth for us to consume. Hence, we need be an example of humanity and sophistication by showing some respect and compassion towards living things by treating them with dignity. It is one thing to slaughter a chicken or cow for consumption. It is another to pin a creature up so that we can pay our admission and have it entertain us while we sit on our butts and drink a beer.

Are we as a culture so lazy and spoiled that we expect everything to come to us and entertain us instead of getting off our lazy behinds and seeking out these things? It reminds me of the New York socialite who reached the peak of Mount Everest. However, she accomplished this through sitting on a sled while a sherpa pulled her the entire hike. We are a culture of fast food entertainment and want the benefits of a thrill seeker without ever lifting a finger to earn it. Come on, how hard is it to go snorkeling? Your odds of seeing a stingray in it's rightful environment are pretty good.

 

[1KWIK_69]

I love animals! Especially if their cooked right! If god didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them so tastey!

Seriously, we're all part of the food chain. We just happen to be at the top of it. All these militant animals rights vegetarians seem to forget that lots of animals eat other animals. It's part of nature just like it's been part of human diet since the beginning.

Where I draw the line is being cruel to animals just for fun. There's a huge difference between making use of animals for a need and just messing with them because we can.

 

[Qnape]

I spent a lot of time in a natural history museum and various of its field stations when I was young. I did a lot of snorkeling, but never had freinds interested in diving, and never got around to it. I've never had much use for the PETA folks, but consider myself environmentally informed and sensitive. After having a daughter and taking the obligatory pilgrimage to the Disney Parks with her, she wanted to see Shamu. I wanted to show her more than captive whales, so I took her to the trainer for a day program at Discovery Cove, which I felt was better than watching tricks. It was a decent program with some classroom time (not too much), and more time spent with the trainers and animals in areas with fewer people around. The animals seemed much more relaxed with their trainers and just a few guests than we observed later when they were interacting with larger groups of guests.

My daughter formed a love for the water beginning at that time. We marveled at the increasing number of dolphins we would see at the Jersey shore each year. She moved from bodysurfing at the shore and challenging me to see how many times we could swim across a pool underwater on one breath to snorkeling, and once her mom got over the shock, a desire to dive. She's 15 now, and we both took our OW in July, and AOW after several interim local dives in October. We're heading to Cozumel for our first dive trip in February, and a second to Utila in April.

Should I have taken her to swim with the dolphins? I'm not sorry, anyway.

Now here's a kicker. We're staying at the Cozumel Palace (my deal to get my wife to go along with all this, lol), and we found out the other day that the stay comes with two free "dolphin encounter experiences". I've been chicken and have not told my daughter about it. I have to explain to her why it was OK once, but she should rethink things. She probably will know for herself, but I'm not sure, so I admit, I haven't told her. Life's a hoot.

 

[sharky60]

...What about those poor lobsters and dungeness crabs in tanks in fish markets just waiting for someone to buy them, take them home, and throw them live into boiling water? Yum. Pass the shell cracker, please. ;^)

Have butter...will travel

 

[CozumelAntonio]

I couldn't stop laughing when I drove by the stingray jail and saw their sign advertising the place as a "Sports Park", don't these people know what the term Sports Park means? And if they do, what would make them think their little cruise-ship-tour-destination-wannabe-construction site qualifies as A. a park and B. sports....?? idiots.....

 

[Sue Sue]

I couldn't stop laughing when I drove by the stingray jail and saw their sign advertising the place as a "Sports Park", don't these people know what the term Sports Park means? And if they do, what would make them think their little cruise-ship-tour-destination-wannabe-construction site qualifies as A. a park and B. sports....?? idiots.....

Unfortunately the Sports Park label is a way to sell the tickets. It comes down to making the bucks. Folks who choose to visit Cozumel's Sting Ray "Sports Park" are either just looking for a fun time on their vacation and/or are either uniformed about the treatment and conditions of the Sting Rays or really don't care. Very sad in my opinion. Sue