What would you do ??

[spectrum]

Am I being a dork ? I think this guy just pissed me off with his style ( or lack of it ).

I would have pulled him up and done it standing at a comfortable depth. If he wasn't up to speed at working his fins in cold water gear perhaps it was a mentoring moment. He probably never got well trained on managing a shore entry nor or how to work together with a buddy.

Maybe he was a little less than appreciative and tactful. I'd want to understand it all before passing judgment, he may have been stressed.

I'm a big fan of spring straps as well. That doesn't mean that everyone needs to run out and invest in every gadget I like. Rubber straps are a time tested device suitable for use.

How did you end up entering the water after only 3 minutes? I have to believe there were a good many more gaps in the planning of the dive. I think you opened yourself up dive with "whoever" and that's what you got. There are a good many divers who only seek to make a few dives a year and accommodations are often appropriate i the interest of mutual enjoyment.

Not even a thank you? That was uncalled for.

Pete

 

[Downing]

Downing: #1 is already done and I never said anything to him, biting my tongue the whole time. #2 I'm learning fast but I would add that in my limited experience, discussing the dive plan, entry and exit never entailed asking the more experienced diver " can you get your fins on by yourself ". That just never occurred to me.

I hear ya! It wouldn't have occurred to me either.

 

[coldwaterdufus]

Pufferfish, RJP, As I tried to point out, I don't mind helping out people that need help. I've done it numerous times in my limited experience. There was no explanation from him, either before nor after. I didn't do it expecting a thanks beforehand. It would have been nice to receive a thanks after though. I think what upset me was the demanding stye of his request. Just the tone. The no thanks after just confirmed my feelings about this guy. And no, I won't dive with him again.

Before you judge me too harshly, think back to when you were learning. This was the experienced guy. I was supposed to be learning from him . In hindsight, I think I gave him to much credit for being the " experienced " guy. A little common courtesy goes a long way. If someone helps me, I'm thanking him ( if I can ) while he's doing it and then again after.

I understand the nature of my local diving. I don't have a permanent buddy and I know I'll run into these situations again. I would certainly handle it differently next time. I'm getting a little smarter. Experienced instabuddy or no experience instabuddy. Next time, I'll speak up. I would ask him to get deeper in the water and we can put them on together. If he has issues with that, then let's talk why.

In terms of the 3 minutes, we discussed the dive plan ( it was very simple ) as a group and then were assigned buddies. We did the safety check together, went over the dive plan together and went to the water.

 

[Downing]

One other thing to keep in mind, too, is that just because someone is experienced doesn't mean he or she is experienced at whatever dive you're about to do.

Take me, as an example.

I'm an experienced warm water diver. But I can count my cold water dives on two hands: nine of them. Four to get certified. Five to get advanced certified. All nine were local and long ago.

It's my goal in life to never again dive in water cooler than say, 78 degrees, preferably higher. But if somehow, some way, someone talks me into a cold water dive, awww, never mind. Ain't gonna happen.

As Dirty Harry once said, "A good man knows his limitations."

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Bubbletrubble, when I first got my dry suit, I only had wet gloves . Then, I would enter the water without my mask on. Worked fine. Since I now have dry gloves, I put on my mask, then my gloves just before I enter the water. Keeps the gloves dry also. Remember, no surf, just a gentle walk in. I tried putting on my mask with the dry gloves on in the water, but found it hard to get my mask under the edge of my hood. It's hard to feel with your fingers with the dry gloves on. That's why mask, then gloves, then water.

@coldwaterdufus: It appears that you have used what happened as a good learning experience. It will probably make your dives in the future (especially with insta-buddies) safer and more fun. That's a good thing.

With regard to the mask and gloves, dry gloves should be put on before getting into the water...no question about that. If you're having issues with seating the mask properly with a hood in place while wearing dry gloves, you might want to consider trimming the face opening in your hood. Otherwise, how can you remove and replace your mask effectively under water? I think mask R&R is a very important procedure to be able to do. Don't get me wrong, though, it's perfectly fine to don the mask before hitting the water. If you have a prescription mask, it makes a lot of sense to put it on before wading in.

It's entirely possible that your dry gloves just give you very little "feel." As someone who manipulates tiny camera buttons under water, I need dry gloves that afford a decent amount of dexterity. I don't know which dry glove system you have, but the Viking bayonet system that I use (with the orange Atlas 620 gloves) works great. I found the blue Atlas 660 gloves to be ill-fitting and too stiff for my taste.

On a related note, there are some local divers who wear their mask strap underneath their hood. They think this provides more protection against the mask getting kicked off or the mask strap breaking. That may be, but I think they do it that way primarily because they're uncomfortable without a mask under water. Probably a better way of going about things is to mount the mask strap on the outside of the hood and just carry a backup mask. Just something to think about...

 

[coldwaterdufus]

Bubbletrubble, Yes, getting older and getting smarter.

The LDS said to tuck my mask in under the hood, also my open water instructor. That's why I trimmed it only so far. Just doing what I was taught. I do see a lot of people having their buddies trying to fix the " seal " between the mask and hood, tucking it under. I like the idea of trimming it even more. Makes perfect sense. I must admit, mask on while entering the water wasn't the best method, but it worked. Underwater mask removal / replacement would have been another story.
Thanks again. I said it before and I'll say it again, SB is great.

 

[Graeme Tolton]

I guess that the advantage of diving often is that you do get regular buddies. Insta buddy can be a PITA, or it can be great. I have never run into an issue like you have described, but I do have a fair amount of experience with insta buddies. I have no problem helping someone out, but this sounds like a case of poor manors. Also, for any kind of cold water diving, spring straps shouldn't even be an option, but standard equipment. Where in Canada are you?

 

[coldwaterdufus]

Graeme, good thought, I appreciate where you are going with this, but I'm in Alberta.

 

[Downing]

Hey, I just remembered I had a bad insta buddy experience once, too.

It was one of my first dives post-certification, maybe even the first, years ago. My wife and I were in Cozumel. She wasn't feeling well, so I went diving by myself. The dive op assigned me to another solo diver.

We jump in. Descend. He's fighting to get down. He finally gets down and off we go, but he's still fighting to stay down, obviously under-weighted. Finally, after about five minutes, maybe more, he gives up, ascends then bobs along the surface, looking down at me as I hovered around 15 or 20 feet.

I wasn't sure what to do. This was a drift dive, as all Cozumel dives are. The group we were with was rapidly drifting away from us and no one had noticed what was happening. I hovered there for a few seconds, thinking PADI's mantra of "don't leave your buddy, don't leave your buddy" before finally deciding, "screw it," and swam after the group. After all, I didn't suffer through OW certification in the cold muddy waters of Oregon and go all the way to Mexico only to do a five minute dive just because my insta buddy didn't know how much weight he needed.

I thought I might get chewed out by the DM or even kicked off the boat or something but no one said a word. Of course, now I know that the boat would pick him up no problem and it was Mexico, after all, and I'm a paying customer. If it were to happen again, I wouldn't hesitate to wave goodbye to my buddy, insta or not, and stick with the group.

Ah, the memories.

 

[princessaprilia]

I would have asked him after the dive if he always has trouble putting on his own fins. Then I would have suggested the spring straps - they will help him or anyone who is willing to assist him.

Maybe he has a regular buddy, and they always put each others fins on. I saw one couple on a trip who essentially dressed each other. It kind of creeped me out... but it worked smoothly for them.

I can't say that I would get angry about the whole incident, though.