What would you do? AITA?

[NothingClever]

2. Every one I know will be told of the crappy policy, Reviews on yelp, trip advisor, Reddit, Scubaboard, etc.

Glad you made your position clear. That’ll whip those recalcitrant dive operations into shape.

 

[fullytek]

No it won't. Those dive operators will continue to do the same thing, the same way. But it will most definitely cost them more than they saved by refusing to refund. Especially when divers like me and @CathyE will dispute the credit card charges in between leaving negative reviews. And we will certainly prevail. Because you're not permitted to charge a customer for services that are ultimately not provided (through no fault of the customer).

See the good thing is we don't take credit cards.
Our boats are booked months in advance and are mostly full for the season.

Yah some time I'll get around to finishing the website but we don't really need to advertise as we are full.

I know you can't handle the thought of a business choosing who it provides services to but that's how we operate.
We have been doing it that way for over a decade whell othere operators have come and gone .

Perhaps in your own bubble you will never been heard accountable for your actions but the dive industry is small and in our area none of the good operators actually compete with each other. They do however communicate so if you dispute a charge with a Great Lakes operator you can bet every charter boat from Duluth to Les Escomen will refuse you future service.

 

[fullytek]

I wouldn't dispute a charge with one of your competitors had I reason to dive in that area.

Unlike you with your "always full boat", contradicted by having almost no social media following and a dead website, as per the link I posted to their website and policies, they're quite fair.

Yah you got me.
We dive in the water not the internet.

 

[USdiver1]

Well, with 10 pages of comments, I think we all now know who is/are the a**hole/s.

 

[CathyE]

Glad you made your position clear. That’ll whip those recalcitrant dive operations into shape.

Probably not. :-( My hope would be for other potential customers reading it, to do a little more research and make a more informed decision. Ultimately it would just make me feel better, and that’s enough.

No it won't. Those dive operators will continue to do the same thing, the same way. But it will most definitely cost them more than they saved by refusing to refund. Especially when divers like me and @CathyE will dispute the credit card charges in between leaving negative reviews. And we will certainly prevail. Because you're not permitted to charge a customer for services that are ultimately not provided (through no fault of the customer).

Fortunately most of my diving is in cash only, pay after diving areas.

See the good thing is we don't take credit cards.
Our boats are booked months in advance and are mostly full for the season.

Yah some time I'll get around to finishing the website but we don't really need to advertise as we are full.

I know you can't handle the thought of a business choosing who it provides services to but that's how we operate.
We have been doing it that way for over a decade whell othere operators have come and gone .

Perhaps in your own bubble you will never been heard accountable for your actions but the dive industry is small and in our area none of the good operators actually compete with each other. They do however communicate so if you dispute a charge with a Great Lakes operator you can bet every charter boat from Duluth to Les Escomen will refuse you future service.

No credit cards? In Canada I usually only see that in under the table businesses. I guess if you won’t refund a customer when they are not at fault, you wouldn't be interested in paying cc fees either.
As far as I am concerned you can pick and choose your clients as you want. Post your policies clearly and reserve the right to refuse service or any reason. No problem.
I am always accountable for my actions, it why I expect the same from the people I do business with. Telling me to suck it up, when I was not at fault, is not being accountable in my opinion.
I’m sure all you operators are careful that the line between communication and collusion doesn’t get crossed.
I really don’t have any desire to dive the Great Lakes, but if that changes I’m glad we had this conversation.

 

[rlaplant]

Credit or refund seems appropriate ... If you buy a connecting plane ticket. They refund or replace the second leg if something happens to it. I could see the dive operators being not so hot about it though

 

[rjack321]

Diver was ultimately diagnosed with immersion pulmonary edema and got a trip in the chamber. Full recovery

Be grateful they didn't require CPR or die. And that you didn't spend the afternoon being interviewed by the police about a fatality.

And eat the cost of the charter. Also stop going on big group charters with strangers. If the diver in distress was a good friend of yours, you'd be more focused on their recovery than the price of a dive.

 

[SouthernSharktoothDiver]

This is getting surprisingly heated. Accusations of tax fraud was not on my bingo card. I mean, in all seriousness, I think most of us would agree that asking about a refund would be totally fine, and nobody here seems terribly obsessive (like, to the point of filing a lawsuit) over not getting a refund. At minimum, can we all agree that a person would not be unreasonable to not return to a dive operator who canceled a trip without a refund? After all, even if there are no hard feelings, as a diver, you'd really prefer to get what you paid for, so why return to someone who, for whatever reason, took your money and did not deliver?

 

[rjack321]

This is getting surprisingly heated. Accusations of tax fraud was not on my bingo card. I mean, in all seriousness, I think most of us would agree that asking about a refund would be totally fine, and nobody here seems terribly obsessive (like, to the point of filing a lawsuit) over not getting a refund. At minimum, can we all agree that a person would not be unreasonable to not return to a dive operator who canceled a trip without a refund? After all, even if there are no hard feelings, as a diver, you'd really prefer to get what you paid for, so why return to someone who, for whatever reason, took your money and did not deliver?

Some of us fully accept that refunds are provided when the weather, boat, staffing or otherwise prevent the "boat leaving the dock". Once the boat leaves the dock then your fees are sunk. So it never even occurs to me to ask for a refund.

But this is also contingent on skippers not taking advantage of this mutual understanding and leaving the dock knowing full well conditions suck. If they are just trying to game the expectations and get paid for untying and starting the boat, then I wouldn't book with them in the first place. This seems to be a problem unique to FL charters honestly - and since I refuse to give anyone in FL any of my tourist dollars, the trash has taken itself out and this is purely an academic argument for me.

 

[Bubblesong]

Financial policies affect behavior. A captain that stresses about giving refunds (given nobody is refunding his fuel costs), is less likely to act quickly to take your sick looking butt back to the doc. The diver on a budget that can’t get refunds is less likely to call a dive they feel uncomfortable with.
Safety equipment costs money to maintain, so stingy guests get shoestring operations. Well maintained boats are not going to be the bargain hunters dream.
And finally, stingy guests on safety-shirking boats are the ones bringing the cheap chinese batteries that catch fire. The Californian Scuba Horror Liveaboard boat was the best deal around, until it wasn’t.