What Questions Should I Ask Before Purchase: Used Regs

[FaithC]

Hello friends,

A friend of my mother is moving and she and her husband are selling their gear. I am newly certified and so, in the process of researching/saving up/buying my own.

I'm really interested in some of her equipment but I need to know what follow up questions to ask and also, what would be a reasonable offer to make. I am in need of your experience and expertise.

Questions For the regs:
What year are they?
When were they last serviced?
The regs are: Sherwood Magnum II regulator set (incudes octopus and 3 gage console) and
US Divers Conshelf 21 set (also with octopus and 3 gage console)

Is one better than the other? Opinions are welcomed. What would a reasonable offer be for each?

Thank you!
Faith

 

[Fishpie]

Personally I would favor the Conshelf as it has an edge in performance over the Sherwood.
Check for hairline cracks where the hose enters the 2nd stage case....particularly the octo if it is yellow.
Look for cracks around the lens of the pressure gauge if plastic.
Bubbles in compass?
Hose condition?.....it is a 25 year old set.
Conshelfs are probably the best deal around for older reg sets. They stand up particularly well to long term storage in less than ideal conditions....I've yet to meet one that can't be put back in service very easily and there's a very good chance it'll be working perfectly without anything done, however, if it is more than 5 years since its last service it should be serviced again......certainly the 1st stage, the 2nd stages are really durable and will work for much longer than 5 years without a service.

How much???
$75 max if no problems with hoses or gauges.

 

[Bob DBF]

I'll have to stand up a bit for the Sherwood, I've been diving them fro the '70's and still dive that 4000 today, but not as often. Although the Conshelf may have an edge in performance, the question is can you actually determine the difference when using them. The tech tuning the reg has more to do with the performance than the factory performance specs. I have found the Sherwoods to be great regs, and have been good to my wallet.

Other than that addendum, Fishpie is absolutely correct.



Bob
-------------------------------------
... you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Harry Calahan

 

[FaithC]

The age concerns me a bit, especially when it comes to getting either serviced. I'm wondering if the money cost to service with parts would be better spent towards a new regulator set up? I am not a DIY service person.

I was hoping they were newer, but given the age of the owners, I'm not surprised that they are 25 years old.

 

[Fishpie]

Difficult to say....a shop will charge about $150 for a service with parts.
If the hoses and gauges are good (and there's a good chance that they are) you'll have a set that will compare well to a new set that will cost at least $400 by the time you add an octo and an analogue gauge console.
The deciding factor might be as small as do you get a compass with the used set.

 

[beaverdivers]

The age concerns me a bit, especially when it comes to getting either serviced. I'm wondering if the money cost to service with parts would be better spent towards a new regulator set up? I am not a DIY service person.

I was hoping they were newer, but given the age of the owners, I'm not surprised that they are 25 years old.

IMO, I would question if it is worth the money to bring a 25 reg back to life. Yes, some 25 year old regs would pass the test; many would not.

If you can find a reliable tech. to look them over and give you an estimate, then you can make an educated decision.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Both are great regs. Both still supporetd and you can find parts for them. Both very easy to service by any experienced tech. The kits for the Sherwood are cheap and a good tech can make them breathe great. That said what are they asking for them?

And on the Sherwood kits should be in the area of 40-50 total and maybe another 75 for labor.

Once done however the magnum could go two or three years between service depending on how much you dive.

If the regs and service are going to run more than say 400 combined new might make more sense as you can get a complete reg set with sealed balanced firsts and seconds, octo, hoses, and basic gauge for about the same price.

a few years ago I picked up two lp 72's, a bc, a Sherwood Blizzard with shadow octo, 3 gauge console, 20 lbs of weights, a belt, and wenoka dive knife (classic one) for $200.00 total. The reg was sold for 150.00, BC for 75.00, console cannibalized, and the other stuff I still have. The tanks from 73 and 77 make one sweet set of doubles that just passed hydro again and got new vis two days ago.

So there is nothing wrong with used gear starting out. But if you don't know what you are looking for or at it's best to have an experienced diver not affiliated with a shop and who services their own gear to look at them. Find a tech diver to have a look see at them. They will give better advice than many shop techs.

 

[FaithC]

I'm very torn. Since I am so new to the sport, all of my contacts are affiliated with the LDS, one guy does some of their service though and I did go on a drive and dive that he organized. Perhaps, I'll reach out to see what he thinks. The shop does sell Sherwoods, so I believe they would service that one. I'm not so sure about the other reg though.

Provided that everything appears in good condition, $75 for the Sherwood, Octo, gauges and all, is a fair offer? She didn't name a price, instead she asked me to make an offer. I don't want to insult her as this is a friend of my Mother's.

 

[scubafanatic]

I'm very torn. Since I am so new to the sport, all of my contacts are affiliated with the LDS, one guy does some of their service though and I did go on a drive and dive that he organized. Perhaps, I'll reach out to see what he thinks. The shop does sell Sherwoods, so I believe they would service that one. I'm not so sure about the other reg though.

Provided that everything appears in good condition, $75 for the Sherwood, Octo, gauges and all, is a fair offer? She didn't name a price, instead she asked me to make an offer. I don't want to insult her as this is a friend of my Mother's.

...sounds like you are donating to charity rather than just making an objective 'business' deal for yourself. E Bay will give you a pretty good idea of market pricing, and budget about $ 125 parts/labor to freshen up a used reg needing service. If it were me, I wouldn't trust 25 yr old rubber parts with my life. (hoses under substantial pressure/ 2nd stage diaphragns/valves rot/warp). Once you start replacing old rubber parts your 'real' price escalates to a point where you're better served buying a very low-mileage, recent model reg set off E-Bay, which is what I do. It's not difficult to buy almost new reg sets off E Bay for 1/2 to 1/3 of new retail price, this is the most bang-for-the-buck and much smarter than buying fixer-uppers that become time/money sinkholes.

 

[halocline]

The age concerns me a bit, especially when it comes to getting either serviced. I'm wondering if the money cost to service with parts would be better spent towards a new regulator set up? I am not a DIY service person.

I was hoping they were newer, but given the age of the owners, I'm not surprised that they are 25 years old.

The age is not a problem at all. Parts are readily available, regulators are designed to be completely rebuildable, and both of these are classic regulators that will perform well when they're in good shape. The Conshelf 1st stage is one of the most successful and long-lived designs in regulator history, and still lives on in the aqualung titan, which uses the same internal parts. The sherwood is by design a bit lower performing, but is likewise a real workhorse and built to last. I'd use either on any recreational dive without hesitation.

The challenge will be finding a good technician at a dive shop where they won't B.S. you and try to scare you into buying a new regulator, probably one with useless 'features' and a deceptive 'free' parts warranty that requires un-necessary annual service. You might consider sending them to Bryan at vintagedoublehose.com. He really knows what he's doing and can rebuild them, inspect the hoses, and make sure you don't get sold stuff you don't need.

Working on my own regulators is a hobby of mine, and I almost always end up diving with my oldest ones.....and I have several newer ones.

---------- Post added June 30th, 2013 at 02:49 PM ----------

If it were me, I wouldn't trust 25 yr old rubber parts with my life. (hoses under substantial pressure/ 2nd stage diaphragns/valves rot/warp).

Well, if you really feel that your life depends on your regulator working, then you're probably not diving safely. And there's no 'rubber parts' that don't get replaced if there's evidence that they're worn. For example, in the conshelf, the soft parts are the 1st stage diaphragm, seat, and o-rings, those all get replaced as part of a rebuild. The 2nd stage diaphragm is silicone and if it's not torn or obviously worn, it will work fine, probably for another 25 years. I evaluate regs this old frequently, have for years, and have only seen one or two 2nd stage diaphragms that need replacing, AND the cost for that is one-time maybe $15. Other than that, you have a mouthpiece, exhaust valve, and maybe an exhaust tee, all very easily and inexpensively replaced.

Hoses wear out and get replaced, sure, but they're not that expensive and are easy to evaluate BEFORE diving with them.

It is true, though, that you can find good deals on much newer regulators on the used market, if you know what you're looking for. I have just not found that older regs are 'money pits' at all, with the exception of old doublehose regs. Those get pricey really fast, but it's a different world due to their vintage nature, and they were much more expensive to begin with.