What makes one cave instructor more expensive than the other (in their own mind?)

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

So why did you start this thread if you knew your wanted to go down the UTD route?

I'm glad you think OHP has value. I'm going to agree to disagree that OHP is as valuable as you think it is (I have no more actual data than you do, and technically I am a GUE/NSS-CDS/PSIA trained cave diver since 2005)

I never said I wanted to go that route. I said that if I was to choose between GUE and UTD then from where I am situated, UTD has certain advantages over GUE. If I was in Florida or near there then I may prefer GUE. As for why I started the thread? Why do we come to scubaboard? This place is really good candyfloss for the mind right? By the end of the day it is all enlightening as well as

 

[MichaelMc]

So, if OHP lets you iron out the unknown length of prelim training without the risks of a fixed length trip to a cave,

and OHP is offered in " midatlantic, one in the Great Lakes. The rest in SoCal, MX, or here in WA",

and I live in NorCal, (New Mex, Texas, Utah, etc, etc. etc),

How does that solve the unknown length pre training with a fixed length trip problem???

Cool idea, of pre overhead prelims. Does not seem to solve a travel problem, as well as might be perceived.

 

[tbone1004]

@CAPTAIN SINBAD so like most all threads I try to participate in, including IIRC at least one with you on a similar subject, I understand full well that my personal opinions and recommendations are unlikely to match what you actually need. So some questions.

• Where do you intend to do most of your cave diving?
• As you are currently involved with your local UTD group, is it beneficial for you to "drink the red Kool-Aid" vs. the "blue Kool-Aid" vs. the "orange Kool-Aid", vs staying agency agnostic? The Kool-aid certainly has its perks, but if they are not relevant or important to you, it may not be worth paying the premium.
• Do you have a gear configuration preference? The three colors of Kool-Aid are rather restrictive when it comes to gear configuration, pros and cons
• What do you intend to get out of cave training? -yes I know this is a loaded question, but many go into it just looking to get better skills for wreck diving or diving in general and if you are going for that reason, that changes your choice in instructors

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

So, if OHP lets you iron out the unknown length of prelim training without the risks of a fixed length trip to a cave,

and OHP is offered in " midatlantic (don't know him), one in the great lakes (who I do know). The rest in SoCal, MX, or here in WA",

and I live in NorCal, (New Mex, Texas, Utah, etc, etc. etc),

How does that solve the unknown pre training with a fixed length trip problem???

Cool idea, of pre overhead prelims. Does not seem to solve a travel problem, as well as might be perceived.

Yup! This is a fact. If you do not have access to a local instructor then to me it loses its value.

 

[tbone1004]

Yup! This is a fact. If you do not have access to a local instructor then to me it loses its value.

We mentor students in what is basically that same type of "course", obviously with no certification. If you have a local instructor that is an experience cave diver, I'm sure you could pay them for a couple days of training in the subject to expedite your cave course.

 

[rjack321]

Well I laid out what I would do in post #64 and picking an specific course or worse agency isn't part of the equation at all.

Shocking as it might be you can mix and match too!
1) GUE-F
2) NSS-CDS Cavern and Basic Cave backmount
3) (couple years go by)
4) sidemount demo day
5) another summer diving
6) PSIA Full cave sidemount

There are actually instructors who teach for multiple agencies as well. You could in theory do #1 and #2 with the same instructor for instance.

 

[tbone1004]

@rjack321 If you're doing 1/2 with the same instructor, I'd just as soon get GUE cave 1. One extra day and less restrictive. I do highly recommend mixing up instructors if you can though, even if you stay in the same agency.

 

[rjack321]

How does that solve the unknown length pre training with a fixed length trip problem???

It doesn't. When you show up for any technical class as a vacation you will always run the risk that you actually suck or its not suited to you. You could very well take OHP and then once you arrive (in MX) realize that actual cave diving freaks you out (claustrophobia) or your soft skills aren't where you feel comfortable and you will need to reset your goals to something achievable. Happens all the time, not really a big deal if you treat it like a journey instead of a goal or destination.

 

[rjack321]

@rjack321 If you're doing 1/2 with the same instructor, I'd just as soon get GUE cave 1. One extra day and less restrictive. I do highly recommend mixing up instructors if you can though, even if you stay in the same agency.

Oh I agree, was more of a hypothetical. And an example of it being instructor instead of agency focused.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

@CAPTAIN SINBAD so like most all threads I try to participate in, including IIRC at least one with you on a similar subject, I understand full well that my personal opinions and recommendations are unlikely to match what you actually need. So some questions.

• Where do you intend to do most of your cave diving?
• As you are currently involved with your local UTD group, is it beneficial for you to "drink the red Kool-Aid" vs. the "blue Kool-Aid" vs. the "orange Kool-Aid", vs staying agency agnostic? The Kool-aid certainly has its perks, but if they are not relevant or important to you, it may not be worth paying the premium.
• Do you have a gear configuration preference? The three colors of Kool-Aid are rather restrictive when it comes to gear configuration, pros and cons
• What do you intend to get out of cave training? -yes I know this is a loaded question, but many go into it just looking to get better skills for wreck diving or diving in general and if you are going for that reason, that changes your choice in instructors

Contrary to the notion that your opinions and recommendations do not match mine, I have actually benefited greatly from our previous discussions on the subject of cave diving. Internet is a bit less expressive but if you and I sat down, you may realize that on my own, I have grown to agree with a lot of your views actually. To answer your questions:

• I dont know. I am unsure if I will be moving or staying where I am presently so I will hold on to this decision until the move is done or I finalize my stay. Meanwhile, I will continue to absorb all that is being expressed because by the end of the day, cave divers are the most experienced lot in diving community even when they do not agree with each other.
• Yes I am still in the middle of my UTD Tech 1. I will be posting a detail of my experience with UTD on the thread that I had begun so I will hold my opinions for that one. Kool aid is not a factor but a local dive community that is similarly trained is something that I see certain advantages in. UTD has a bigger group than GUE in DC area so that is a plus but we frequently dive with GUE folks and in the water, red kool aid and blue kool aid all become "salt water."
• My gear preference is backmount. I am not tempted towards side mount at least not in this point of my diving.
• My initial goal of cave dives was to practice penetration for wrecks and the idea of looking at rocks made no sense to me. As I looked more into it, cave diving is looking to be more and more appealing so as time goes by, I am sure I will be doing cave dives for the sake of cave dives.

Hope this makes sense?