what makes a diving agency a diving agency?

[Pullmyfinger]

That's what most of the agencies have done, and you seem to resent it. Real easy training for fun diving. Most people come to the sport to have a bit of fun. That's the reality of the situation.

I fixed that for you. ;-)

 

[The Chairman]

I fixed that for you. ;-)

I like real easy training. Keeping it easy, fun and relevant is how I roll, er dive.

 

[Doppler]

Oh. You mean like the world-wide economic problem. Understandable. Of course, in these times, that probably means it is the best of the best that are doing well (or those that have the best marketing department)

For the record, diving and dive vacations are growing, but not in the traditional markets of Europe and North America. The situation in SE Asia is remarkable and blows the doors off just about ANY operation here (USA) or in Europe.

---------- Post Merged at 07:37 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:30 AM ----------

And how do we cure ignorance?

With training ... of course.

And where does training come from?

Why instructors ... of course.

And who defines what (and often how) instructors teach?

Why agencies ... of course.

So ... it rather logically follows, that at least to some degree, agencies bear some level of responsibility for diver ignorance.

I agree that training / education is one of the keystones... but just one of them and only a part of the solution.

You cannot legislate or educate around stupidity and a sense of entitlement that makes a person over-extend set limits.

 

[chillyinCanada]

For the record, diving and dive vacations are growing, but not in the traditional markets of Europe and North America. The situation in SE Asia is remarkable and blows the doors off just about ANY operation here (USA) ...quote end)

Please elaborate. TIA

 

[Doppler]

For the record, diving and dive vacations are growing, but not in the traditional markets of Europe and North America. The situation in SE Asia is remarkable and blows the doors off just about ANY operation here (USA) ...quote end)

Please elaborate. TIA

As an indicator, the number of certifications (from OW on up through CCR and other technical ratings for at least three agencies) is UP in several markets in SE Asia year by year compared to figures for North America. Equipment sales are also showing growth in those markets according to numbers from a couple manufacturers. I do not have numbers for dive operations at popular destinations, but a little personal experience and feedback from buddies who work there indicates that the spots formally taken by Germans, Brits, Yanks, et al, are now occupied by punters from SE Asia... and Russians. And the hotel industry is healthy in that region... generally speaking of course.

If you are in tourism and just starting your career, my advice is learn Mandarin... and English

 

[Edward3c]

As an indicator, the number of certifications (from OW on up through CCR and other technical ratings for at least three agencies) is UP in several markets in SE Asia year by year compared to figures for North America. Equipment sales are also showing growth in those markets according to numbers from a couple manufacturers. I do not have numbers for dive operations at popular destinations, but a little personal experience and feedback from buddies who work there indicates that the spots formally taken by Germans, Brits, Yanks, et al, are now occupied by punters from SE Asia... and Russians. And the hotel industry is healthy in that region... generally speaking of course.

If you are in tourism and just starting your career, my advice is learn Mandarin... and English

As a Brit who used to travel to the Caribbean/Florida for diving holidays, I have for the last few years gone East.

Why, I've had enough of US airport delays causing missed connections

 

[DCBC]

Kinda funny. I have never had a student of mine have an accident. Using your quantifier, I am golden as is my teaching regimen...

I too haven't had a student (to the best of my knowledge) experience a diving accident. It would be however, big headed of me to attribute this solely to my training.

Although my program in extensive, it doesn't guarantee that equipment will not fail, or the competence of a fellow buddy. The ocean can be hazardous. Luck and the will of God are factors in-which my training can't hope to overcome. Reasonably preparing the student to dive independently (with a buddy) ensuring good watermanship/swimming skills, buoyancy control, proper site assessment of the the dive site, tide and decompression projections, gas consumption/planning and solid rescue skills are minimum in my view. There are others that feel these are nice things to have, but just not required.

A poorly trained diver who is accident free is still a poorly trained diver. Unfortunately, I believe that too many divers being certified today fall into this category. Perhaps if training improved, diver retention would as well.

 

[Adobo]

I agree that training / education is one of the keystones... but just one of them and only a part of the solution.
You cannot legislate or educate around stupidity and a sense of entitlement that makes a person over-extend set limits.

My guess is that just as many *ignorant* divers get in trouble as stupid divers. These two types of divers being separate and distinct.

I'll give two examples of people who I think behaved the way they did out of ignorance as opposed to stupidity:

1. I can't count the amount of times I've been on a boat with newer divers who don't do a proper gear check in the water. Countless times I've had to help divers get their gear sorted out before descending. I suspect the rest of the pre-dive prep was every bit as neglected. And these new divers, after spending their entire open water certification class being told how important it is to dive with a clearly identified buddy, proceed to do a dive as part of a group where no buddies are assigned, blindly following a *professional* wherever they are told to go.
2. Recently, there was an incident in my area where two divers got in trouble. After one member of the team ran low on gas, both decided to do an *optional* safety stop. Things went south from there.

Is it stupidity/sense of entitlement that make people do these types of things? Or is it *ignorance*? Personally, I think it is ignorance. People just don't know what they don't know. I think its patently unfair to characterize people as stupid for not knowing how to make the best decisions after giving them a 2 weekend open water certification class.

I am not a proponent of legislating anything but I suspect educating people better on how to dive would fix at least half of the people that you might consider *stupid*.

 

[TSandM]

I don't know, Ted. We emphasize buddy checks in our classes, and one of the last things I tell our students is that, once they get out of class, they will see most of these safety things honored more in the breach than in the observance, and that they shouldn't allow peer pressure to make them jettison the good habits they've been taught.

I'd be REAL curious to see how many of them are bothering with any of it a year later. I know from personal experience that it is difficult to hold the line on those good practices when they are ignored around you, or worse, you are even given static for insisting on them. This occurs occasionally, even within the "culture of safety" in which I dive.

It's neither ignorance nor stupidity. It's human nature.

 

[DCBC]

...I suspect educating people better on how to dive would fix at least half of the people that you might consider *stupid*.

I agree and believe good habits can be taught, but they are more greatly absorbed if the training duration is increased. The student can benefit by implementing the required practice until it becomes second nature. It takes time however for this to occur.