What length hoses do you have?

[Rick Murchison]

Originally posted by cybordolphin
Oh perfect....

My class is SSI. The manual is fourth printing 2000. Not out of date by any means. And it does go on to discuss not sharing a single reg., OR giving away your primary. One of the question answer quizzes also specifically states.

Question:
"12) According to NASDS emergency proceedures, you should share air:

Answer: b) ONLY if you have a safe second stage."
(they are meaning a backup/"safe")

They list the INCORRECT answers:
a) even if you only have one second stage.
c) BY GIVING YOUR BUDDY YOUR PRIMARY SECOND STAGE.
d) only during an ascent.

Now you're getting *me* confused.
What manual do you have?
While we're quoting, here's the quote from the SSI Instructor manual, Pool Session 3, Para III.C.5.b
"The donor gives the primary air source to the needer..."
If you're taking an SSI course then this is what you should be taught. The earlier quote, and the question above were the same as is in the '95 NASDS manual - and there's been a policy change to the SSI "primary first" procedure since then.
As for "sharing" let's keep our terms clear - "air sharing" refers to the use of two second stages off the same air supply, and is what all open water training agencies advocate, including NASDS and SSI, whether they teach handing off the primary or the secondary first. Sharing a single second stage is called "buddy breathing" and is either "optional" (it is "optional" in SSI training) or not taught at all by the training agencies today (it was taught and practiced back in the pre-octopus days, which were not that far back, by the way). "Buddy breathing" is discouraged as a solution to an OOA situation - the CESA (Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent) is preferred. As the agency who introduced the octopus in the first place, NASDS was an early and strong opponent of buddy breathing as a viable safety procedure.
Have fun. Be safe. If you're still leaning towards handing off your safe second vice your primary in an OOA situation, I urge you to rethink that - NASDS has, and has switched.
Rick

 

[cybordolphin]

Rick thanks...

That is VERY good to know. I am glad that NASDS has changed their views on this. It is much better if the same practice is being taught universally (or close). They litterally have a few pages on NOT giving away your primary, and NEVER "buddy breathe" (although they do give short instruction on how to do that).

Not sure why I did not get a current study guide/manual. Will have to look into that. Your manual must be newer. It must be really recently that they decided to change the OOA proceedure.
Mine shows a print date of 2000.

Rick, in the unlikely event the safe second should fail after giving the primary second to my buddy... what coarse of action do they recommend. I could politely ask for my primary back..... and ask my buddy to surface, or if he is trained in "buddy breathing", go with that? God help me if he is not trained in buddy breathing.....
cause if he keeps my primary... I'd be kinda screwed, I don't think I could easily get to the surface with him taggin along, and me now OOA.

In a cave dive where doing an OOA surfacing is probably never an option.... giving away the primary vs. the safe second.... probably would not matter. But it seems to me that in the unlikely event that the safe second were to fail as mentioned above... and you were able to get to the surface (say 60ft), you probably would not have that option after giving away your primary, and being the one with the air on your back. The buddy would have to closely shadow your quick (but safe) ascent. Probably quicker if you did not have your buddy attached while trying to get to the surface for air.

Hmmm....

So...... now to experiment with ways to stow a longer primary hose.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by cybordolphin
and you were able to get to the surface (say 60ft), you probably would not have that option after giving away your primary, and being the one with the air on your back. The buddy would have to closely shadow your quick (but safe) ascent. Probably quicker if you did not have your buddy attached while trying to get to the surface for air.

So...... now to experiment with ways to stow a longer primary hose.

Stowing: to wrap or stuff.... that is the question. Perhaps we need a thread on that Cybor...

As for you going to the surface in an OOA with a sucker dangling from your long hose.... I've seen it happen twice in training and the sucker gets left behind... and without the long hose and reg. But don't worry.... the second stage is not going to fail closed as Rick said

(You aren't diving Posidon are you????)

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by cybordolphin
Rick, in the unlikely event the safe second should fail after giving the primary second to my buddy...

If you tested your backup at the start of the dive and it worked, this scenario is so unlikely as to not warrant consideration.

This is what I meant by dreaming up double failures and ridiculous scenarios to support indefensible positions.

This is what we do in a cave, are you saying that open water is so much more hazardous that it requires a different solution?

Roak

 

[Tavi]

Guess my question got skipped over in the middle of a debate, so I brought it back up.

Thanks in advance, Tavi

Originally posted by Tavi
Hi all,
I use a Sea-cure mouthpeice. Works great for me!

Would having this mouthpeice on the reg that is being donated/taken cause a problem?

My thoughts are. It Would probably feel real strange to someone else(it's molded to fit my mouth). But they may be so glad to get air that they don't notice? or it could add to their panic?

any opinions or experience???

Or recomendations. What do you use?

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Tavi
My thoughts are. It Would probably feel real strange to someone else(it's molded to fit my mouth). But they may be so glad to get air that they don't notice? or it could add to their panic?

All of the above is correct...
Add to it the danger of having your teeth removed with the regulator if some one grabs it out of your mouth in a panic!

All that said I like the comfort of the Seacure mouth piece and so does my partner.... we both put up with each others "bite" when we share air....

I did have another diver tell be that my mouth piece was so long that it made him almost gag.... perhaps cutting a long one down to prevent this might be a good idea for those dive with a partner with a small mouth.... or if you dive with the buddy of cirucmstance then perhaps going with a standard mouthpiece would be best.... this is not necessarily just a problem for long hose divers.

Much of these problems are resolved by diving with a known buddy.

 

[Tavi]

So I think it's probably a good Idea for me to use a "standard" mouthpiece for training dives. Then my seacure for diving with my usuall buddies (I really like it,I hope it's acceptable to them).

 

[Scubaroo]

Has anyone had problems with the 5' hose being too short for their stature?

 

[Bob3]

If someone touches your backup, punch them in the mouth, bite their fingers and...

BOY! Am I sure glad I don't leave home without my bailout bottle!!!

This thread is one of the best advertisements yet for lugging that pony around.:bonk:

 

[Lost Yooper]

I just use a regular mouth peice.

Mike

Good one Bob.