What is "servicing" a regulator?

[Wookie]

Ive had these regs for many years and they now breathe better than they ever did after being serviced by “authorized” techs, sad but true!

Something important to remember, though. A service tech who doesn't know you will set your regs up to factory spec, for a conshelf that's 1" of vacuum cracking pressure. I set my own regulators for far less than that, where turning the adjustment knob (Atomic) will actually give me positive pressure. Kind of like diving with a CPAP.

So it isn't "Sad but true", it's "They did exactly as taught", for their liability.

 

[reefrat]

The adjustment on any Atomic (or any other mainstream recreational regulator) should never give positive pressure when turned all the way out- this is in excess of the factory specs and is technically incorrectly tuned. My Kirby Morgan Superflow is the only exception to this rule AFAIK.
I set my conshelf to approx 1” H2O, factory services in the past have been more like 1.5”.

 

[shoredivr]

With all due respect, if I'm going to be trusting my life to something, I want to know exactly how it works myself and be able to diagnose any issues instantly and then fix them myself if it's a simple fix. The attitude that I should just not think about it, throw money around at other people and not try to understand how it works, is simply not my attitude. Thanks.

@tbone1004 thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know

try taking the Deep 6 regulator repair clinic, it was interesting tearing down and rebuilding the first and second stage. To do it well, you need some specific tools, some of which are listed in this thread.

Deep 6 Outfitters live service clinic in the GTA... who's in?

 

[Wookie]

The adjustment on any Atomic (or any other mainstream recreational regulator) should never give positive pressure when turned all the way out- this is in excess of the factory specs and is technically incorrectly tuned. My Kirby Morgan Superflow is the only exception to this rule AFAIK.
I set my conshelf to approx 1” H2O, factory services in the past have been more like 1.5”.

Yes. It's how I like it. My regs, my rules.

 

[Caveeagle]

I don't see how the liability would be any different than auto manufacturers selling parts, you could argue that at 70 mph a car is life support equipment and could cause much more danger to others than a SCUBA regulator. Also, it could be argued, that an auto is a much more complex than a reg, as well.

It is basic restraint of trade in an industry so small it's not worth the time taken to correct.


Bob

I will say again, ..there are huge diffrences in service repair between automotive mechanics, and scuba regulators. ..and I work on both.

Just a few points..
-A car breakdown is much more likely to give you a break down, or no start situation. Brake systems have redundant hydraulics, as well as a manual e-brake.
-most people are very aware of how a car is supposed to work. Basic failure modes are almost common knowledge. ...not so with regulators.
-there is very little "tuning" with cars of today. EFI is pretty much plug n play. With reg servicing, the break in and tuning is probably the easiest part to screw up. And a novice could easily set the IP wrong, and the reg might even be "divable". ..issues might not show up under low stress conditions.
-in automotive, you can replace individual parts. Car not starting.. replace starter. Fixed? Yes=happy, No=wasted money on starter, now check wiring and battery. Regs are not like this.

 

[txgoose]

I will say again, ..there are huge diffrences in service repair between automotive mechanics, and scuba regulators. ..and I work on both.

Just a few points..
-most people are very aware of how a car is supposed to work. Basic failure modes are almost common knowledge. ...not so with regulators.

In my experience most people know what the car is supposed to do when they mess with the dash and the two pedals. (Very few people anymore would even know what to do with a third pedal.) They rarely have an idea how the car does it. A simple dead battery will baffle most folks. Dead cell? Dead Alternator? Good alternator, poor belt tension? Gunked up corrosion on the battery terminals? I don't think that this topic is actually dealing with the average person anyway. It is dealing with someone that is comfortable in a tool box.

-there is very little "tuning" with cars of today. EFI is pretty much plug n play. With reg servicing, the break in and tuning is probably the easiest part to screw up. And a novice could easily set the IP wrong, and the reg might even be "divable". ..issues might not show up under low stress conditions.

Other than IP and cracking pressure, there isn't just tons of tuning with regs. A novice could set an IP wrong. A novice auto mechanic could set many more things incorrectly. A very simple gauge in an inflater hose and a tool to turn the spring tensioner is all a person would need. The argument isn't that a reg can't be rebuilt incorrectly, but rather that a decently mechanically inclined person can work on scuba regs. IMO, it is still a valid statement. If you're comfortable with a wrench, if you can read a manual, this isn't rocket science or even close to it.

-in automotive, you can replace individual parts. Car not starting.. replace starter. Fixed? Yes=happy, No=wasted money on starter, now check wiring and battery. Regs are not like this.

Why can't a person replace individual parts in a scuba reg? I'll grant you that on average a person will find it easier to source an entire rebuild kit. That said, I can buy complete rebuild kits for quite a bit less money that the average car starter AND less than the hourly rate of the average LDS mechanic. So if I only need one part, I'm still coming out ahead. And I have spares of the other parts.

Is rebuilding a reg serious? Sure.
Does it need due diligence? Absolutely.
Should it be a person's first time holding a spanner? Debatable. Maybe not.
Could a mechanically inclined person buy a couple of books, watch a couple of videos (repeatedly in my case), buy a couple of "throwaway" rebuild kits, be willing to "waste" a tank of air and figure it out? I sure as heck hope so. And I'll admit that I am a newbie, but I have 51 dives on my conshelf reg set. No one is going to accuse me of being crazy smart. I'm not special. Yet, I have zero reason to believe that my regs are performing less reliably than any of the regs I have been in the presence of going underwater.

Every single person that works on their own regs needs to decide if they are ready to carry that responsibility. If they are, and they are willing to take those steps to be safe and responsible, they don't need to be full of fear. I have also worked on cars and regs. I'll pick regs every day.

I'll describe my progression:
1) As a general rule, not carte blanche, it is insulting any time a vendor tries to tell me that I'm just not smart enough to do what they do. Especially when I see that some of the folks that I'll pay to do the work, don't even come close to some mythical guru status.
2) So I start poking around on SB. I find the vintage and DIY areas. I find the VDH videos. I buy the books.
3) I see that there are several models of regs that most folks agree are readily easy to work on and find parts for.
4) I buy the regulators. And a cheapo unltrasonic cleaner (not required). And multiple rebuild kits from @Bryan@Vintage Double Hose. and a tool or two from @herman.
5) read a fair amount. watch a fair amount. No more time than I've put into Chiltons or Haynes over the years.
5b) herman gave a couple of pointers in a SB thread. I don't remember which one now.
6) assembled my regs. took 'em apart. rebuilt them. took 'em apart. let them sit a day to allow my mind forget any nuance i picked up from the previous rebuild. Rebuilt them again. watched the IP through a bunch of cycles (I admit I didn't count them. it was a good number.). checked the IP the next morning.
7) dove them in shallow water for about an hour. no bubbles, except from the exhaust port. didn't die. didn't like the cracking pressure of the octo reg. adjusted it. on my conshelf, for this one, it was a royal pain. the primary set easily for me. go figure.
8) dove the next 4 dives down to 27, 26, 43,and 42ft. With my buddy. didn't die.
9) 51 dives later. depths from 13 to 102ft. Longest duration has been 75 minutes. Had an air share with my oldest. It was actually a low stress situation but two of us breathing off an amateur's rebuilt regs.

Nothing special. Nothing that required mensa level IQ. I just don't see a huge difference in mechanical ability between a shade tree car mechanic and an inside the comfort of my AC reg mechanic. The issue is not the difference in the physical mechanisms involved, it is the ability of the mechanic. The cognitive abilities to maintain both, IMO are very similar.

Apologies for being long winded. It is a reflection of point 1 in my progression.

 

[KeithG]

I will say again, ..there are huge diffrences in service repair between automotive mechanics, and scuba regulators. ..and I work on both.

Just a few points..
-A car breakdown is much more likely to give you a break down, or no start situation. Brake systems have redundant hydraulics, as well as a manual e-brake.
-most people are very aware of how a car is supposed to work. Basic failure modes are almost common knowledge. ...not so with regulators.
-there is very little "tuning" with cars of today. EFI is pretty much plug n play. With reg servicing, the break in and tuning is probably the easiest part to screw up. And a novice could easily set the IP wrong, and the reg might even be "divable". ..issues might not show up under low stress conditions.
-in automotive, you can replace individual parts. Car not starting.. replace starter. Fixed? Yes=happy, No=wasted money on starter, now check wiring and battery. Regs are not like this.

I disagree. A car is way more complex than a reg. A reg is no more complex than a carburetor. Less moving parts than a brake system and trivial compared to a transmission.

On my reg there are only 3 "adjustments". There are several other things that need to be "fastened" properly. Regs are pretty simple devices.

But like a kitchen faucet, not all people are equipt to service them.

 

[JamesBon92007]

But like a kitchen faucet, not all people are equipt to service them.

That should be funny. I never had any problems with a kitchen faucet until they came out with "modules" instead of "washers."

 

[Jack Hammer]

Regs are generally simple, especially for those mechanically inclined. Basic parts changes are not difficult. Where experience comes in is diagnosing and recognizing something as normal or a problem. Sometimes fixing an issue is not as simple as changing an O-ring. Not everyone should work on, tune, or rebuild their regs.