What is happening with NAUI these days?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The Chairman

Chairman of the Board
Staff member
Messages
63,602
Reaction score
32,789
Location
Cave Country!
# of dives
I just don't log dives
Out of the 47 total replies to this post, I have yet to see one that fully answers the OP's question. Except maybe one by The Chairman. Hmm.
I don't know if I've answered it for current conditions. It's been over ten years since I've left NAUI and I can only document the issues I saw back then. If it's still having those issues, then it indicates denial.
 

Colliam7

Tech Instructor
Staff member
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
Messages
7,747
Reaction score
4,820
Location
Kents Store, VA
# of dives
1000 - 2499
The Chairman:
When is the truth a disparagement? Are agencies really as thin-skinned as some instructors?
So, what is 'TRUE'? I am pretty comfortable with FACT. I am not sure whether I know that what most of us say is always TRUE.

The issue isn't whether some agencies have thin skins, it isn't whether some instructors have 'thin skins'. The issue is whether 'professionals' can behave in a 'professional' manner and not spend their time bashing each other because of what THEY think is true, irrespective of fact. That is why we don't allow agency bashing on SB, isn't it? Because many people who are absolutely and irrevocably convinced of the TRUTH of their argument, don't necessarily have FACTS to support it.

We have said repeatedly on SB that the problem is more a matter of HOW you say things, than it is of WHAT you say.

So, in this case - as I understand it - BoltSnap simply pointed out that NAUI has a code of ethics that would preclude some of the criticisms being bandied about. Frankly, I don't know what 'code' NAUI has, as I only teach through SDI/TDI and PADI. But, I know, from a professional life outside of scuba, how NOT to behave. I have been an expert witness in more than a few medical malpractice cases. And, I never said that a defendant health care professional was 'wrong'. Nor, for that matter, did I say - when testifying for the defendant - that a health care professional was 'right', I certainly never said that s/he was or was not 'competent'. Rather, I always referenced the practice standards of my profession, I referenced the facts of the case, and I gave my individual professional opinion of what a 'reasonably prudent professional' or what 'I', would have done, given the facts. Moreover, I NEVER, EVER spoke about another professional in public. Where I had concerns, I shared those with the relevant professional credentialing board.

I may have reservations about what I 'PERCEIVE' to be the focus of various diving training / credentialing agencies. In fact, I do. But, as a diving professional - and that is what I beleive we are as Instructors, Assistant Instructors, DMs, etc. - I don't feel the need to publically vent my opinion spleen as to what is TRUE.
 

wetb4igetinthewater

Instructor
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Messages
7,551
Reaction score
6,146
Location
Seattle
# of dives
500 - 999
This reminds me of the Emperor's New Clothes. The only honest person in the bunch was the little kid pointing his finger.

Pete,

I've never understood by people's desire to unwillingness to address obvious issues or even worse, outright deny their existence.
hear_see_speak.jpg

I don't see how people would think that an agency is really a reflection on them. Agencies are mechanisms to be recognized for teaching diving.

I worked for Intel in the late 90s. During the DOJ lawsuit against Microsoft, Intel got caught for far worse anti-trust practices, but they negotiated with the DOJ right away so it didn't receive the same publicity. And Intel was certainly guilty. Now since I worked at Intel, was their illegal actions a reflection on me? Of course not. It was a reflection on the executive clowns. I'm not the one pulling those stunts. Same with agencies being inconsistent with their code of conduct. It isn't me making the decision to look the other way for egregious behavior. For one particular dive center, I'm amazed that they haven't had any deaths up to this point. When that happens, the agency will likely be found responsible. At least I hope they will be.

I've had internal conversations with ITs about requiring teaching neutrally buoyant and trimmed which would result in some instructors crossing over to other agencies. I just shake my head as it comes down to revenue from the dues the pros pay and the income from their students through purchasing training materials/fee payments. It is disheartening actually.

There are definite problems in the industry and keeping quiet or trying to work only within an agency isn't going to accomplish anything. Loss of market share and revenue is the only thing that will make agencies reform in a significant way.
 

drrich2

ScubaBoard Supporter
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
10,229
Reaction score
8,740
Location
Southwestern Kentucky
# of dives
500 - 999
I watch this thread out of curiosity about NAUI. I know it predates PADI, and has a good reputation with some, and I bought some of their educational material and it was quite good. Why they seem so less dominant in recreational dive training compared to PADI and SSI interests me. Seeing some of the contention of this thread, I wonder if different perceptions of the question may've fueled different reactions. Take this question:
What is the current status of the BOD and NAUI in general? I have lost track (and interest) of the latest drama with the Board. There has been so much turmoil, it is hard to keep up!
I could take that 2 ways. One - as an invitation to gossip about Board members and interpersonal controversies, in which case a negative reaction is no surprise. Two - an open question about what policy or position changes the Board may have recently made or be considering, how this might change their direction and prevalence in recreational dive training, etc... To the extent this information is disseminated to the instructor base and known to NAUI dive shops, I wouldn't think it'd be 'trade secrets' type protected info.

Asking the current status of NAUI sounds like the latter; what's their market share, is it rising or falling, when instructors pick an agency to teach under how does it stack up against PADI, SSI, etc...

@sandiegoaes as it's your question (and I get that it was very open ended, so you weren't after a specific narrow response), can you offer some guidance on what sort of issues you were hoping to bring out and learn about?
 

kelemvor

Big Fleshy Monster
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
7,602
Reaction score
4,658
Location
Largo, FL USA
# of dives
200 - 499
It's funny. The past day or so, I thought for sure this was a continuation of a thread that had popped up in recent years. This morning, I searched for the thread I'd been thinking of and found that it was about NSSCDS. It's interesting how discussions regarding cardsellers are so contentious that they all seem the same.

For many of us, this thread is the first indication that (maybe) something is amiss at NAUI. On the other hand, there's so many hard feelings between instructors and agencies and customers that it's hard to tell what to believe and what is just some disgruntled person getting something off their chest.

So far, I haven't seen any actual information about NAUI good or bad in this thread. Hopefully those that had a chance to vent feel better after making the effort.
 

tursiops

Marine Scientist and Master Instructor
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
Messages
14,525
Reaction score
13,358
Location
U.S. East Coast
# of dives
2500 - 4999
It's funny. The past day or so, I thought for sure this was a continuation of a thread that had popped up in recent years. This morning, I searched for the thread I'd been thinking of and found that it was about NSSCDS. It's interesting how discussions regarding cardsellers are so contentious that they all seem the same.

For many of us, this thread is the first indication that (maybe) something is amiss at NAUI. On the other hand, there's so many hard feelings between instructors and agencies and customers that it's hard to tell what to believe and what is just some disgruntled person getting something off their chest.

So far, I haven't seen any actual information about NAUI good or bad in this thread. Hopefully those that had a chance to vent feel better after making the effort.
And there is probably a similar thread about the NACD.
 

kelemvor

Big Fleshy Monster
ScubaBoard Supporter
Messages
7,602
Reaction score
4,658
Location
Largo, FL USA
# of dives
200 - 499
And there is probably a similar thread about the NACD.
I'm sure there is. I didn't mean to specifically call the CDS or NAUI out, I meant to highlight the fact that many/all agencies have people angry at them for various reasons at various times.
 

The Chairman

Chairman of the Board
Staff member
Messages
63,602
Reaction score
32,789
Location
Cave Country!
# of dives
I just don't log dives
and not spend their time bashing each other
Expressing an opinion and "Bashing" are two very different things. The OP asked a question based on his experience with an agency. You might have had a different experience, but his experience is still true for him. It's as important for you to share your great experience as for him to share his less than great experience as both are equally true. Trying to shut him up with arcane rules based on corporate narcissism seems to be counterproductive as proven by this thread. Social media allows all of us to see the good, the bad and the NAUI. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself).

Bashing, on the other hand, seeks to smear an entity needlessly and relies on the continual or systematic use of lies and deceptive verbiage. I simply can't see that in a simple question.

It's telling that no one has asked him why he feels the way he does. The NAUI fans (and there's nothing wrong with being one) seem to assume he's simply bashing or that he's some kind of troll. Suggesting he's simply bashing NAUI without knowing his circumstances is more bashing than him asking if things have changed at all. If I were NAUI, I would be contacting him to see why he is disgruntled.

Scuba is a passionate sport. I expect to see sparks to fly a bit as we express our differing opinions. But, by all means, let's allow people to have opinions that differ from our own.
Hopefully those that had a chance to vent feel better after making the effort.
Let the healing begin! :D :D :D
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Top Bottom