What if Shearwater made a purely recreational computer???

[Centrals]

I did say in other thread that if they can produce a pure rec computer at half the cost, given the reputation of Shearwater it will wipe the floor with all existing rec computer.
I love to see if I was right or wrong. Otherwise, I don't really care.

 

[NAM001]

I think this discussion is a waste of time. The difference in a tech and rec computer is the program. If Shearwater was to make a rec computer it would probably be the petrel without the tech mode availability. Would folks be happier if there was a unlock code to get to the tech options. On their behalf I think that Shearwater is on the opposite end of the computer spectrum than most computers. Others are for the most part rec computer companies moving to include tech. Shearwater is a tech company moving to include rec. Of course if there was a rec computer by shearwater it would have to have bells and whistles and do lockouts and the other annoying stuff that has driven many to shearwater in the first place. There is I believe a mentality to the computer. that mentality is one of .... the computer is the baby sitter for the diver or it is a tool to assist the diver. Most of the divers the are not SB types are the type that need babysitting. So inherently shearwater would have to change the philosophy of the computer to match the baby sitting needy divers. I think that would be hard for them to do after all they have accomplished with existing models.

 

[rddvet]

From a business perspective, why shouldn't they ? I think they are leaving "money on the table", by not hopping into the "Recreational Only" market. I seem to recall another company that expanded it's product line & offerings. I think it's name was. . . umm . . . Apple ?? Imagine a "Perdix-R", (rec only version) for $395 to $495, possibly including AI, and the transmitter for another $195 to $295, and that puts you roughly at the price of the existing Perdix. So for roughly the same price, you could get a Perdix or a Perdix-R, it's YOUR choice. And of course there could potentially be an upgrade path/key for the R version to the "Tec" version. Upgrade/pin/key would be $99 to $149. PURE PROFIT ! Fundamentally, why wouldn't Shearwater want to play in another market, that's way larger than Tec/Rebreather ? Good grief, I just laid out the entire business plan for them !! You're welcome Bruce !!

Whenerver someone refers to "pure profit". It shows how little business acumen they have.

Making a rec computer is not likely worth the added manufacturing cost as compared to the limited mount of sales. Especially when people are talking about adding air integration. If a rec diver knows enough to want a shearwater, they're gonna pony up for the one available now.

 

[Centrals]

I think this discussion is a waste of time. The difference in a tech and rec computer is the program. If Shearwater was to make a rec computer it would probably be the petrel without the tech mode availability. Would folks be happier if there was a unlock code to get to the tech options. On their behalf I think that Shearwater is on the opposite end of the computer spectrum than most computers. Others are for the most part rec computer companies moving to include tech. Shearwater is a tech company moving to include rec. Of course if there was a rec computer by shearwater it would have to have bells and whistles and do lockouts and the other annoying stuff that has driven many to shearwater in the first place. There is I believe a mentality to the computer. that mentality is one of .... the computer is the baby sitter for the diver or it is a tool to assist the diver. Most of the divers the are not SB types are the type that need babysitting. So inherently shearwater would have to change the philosophy of the computer to match the baby sitting needy divers. I think that would be hard for them to do after all they have accomplished with existing models.

What are you trying to say?
Do I smell something like DIR here?
Yes I am a baby sitting diver but only need a computer to give me ndl, depth and time. And my Aladin doesn't even has a light for night dive! Can you handle that, expert?
An antique Deco Planner + two BT are good enough to baby sit me for tec dive.

 

[diversteve]

Honestly the only way I will ever buy a Shearwater is if they start producing an AI recreational model. I have no use for any of the tech features since I will not ever need them but I do love the display. And would consider it along with the other $700-1500 computers were I in the market for one. They have a high-end reputation for reliability and quality and the development of rec-only software seems to be the easiest part.

I'd even pay the Perdix/Petrel money or even more for it. Most better wrist AI computers run about $1000 all-in when you add the $300-400 for the transmitter.

 

[abscuba]

KWS has a very valid point. Part of the reason shearwater is so popular is it is a tool, it does not beep or vibrate it has exactly what a tech diver needs with no extras. Bells and whistles are nice but each one is an extra failure point. Yes there recreational community is much larger and the shearwater has a rec mode but you are ponying up the money for a computer that is purpose built for a certain set of divers. Look at the car comparison yes prosha makes a station wagon that cost 5 times what a normal one does, but who buys most of the porchas people wanting a sports car. The shearwater is a great computer I have a predator on my rebreather and i use a petrel as a stand alone. If you don't want to use a lot of the features it has which are really only useful if you are doing deco then why put the cash out. On top of that why add features like AI, buzzers, and beepers that would alienate the group that made it popular to begin with. When you look at products of any kind ones purpose built for a use always out perform products that are made to do everything.

 

[drrich2]

One issue driving this matter is that Petrels have often been recommended on the forum...to recreational divers. Likely looking for their 1st dive computer. The argument has been made that it's superior for rec. diving to alternatives (sometimes based on a recommender's assertion that A.I. is useless, which many hotly refute). Regardless of what we think Shearwater should do, there's a natural process that may unfold here...

I read in another thread that less than 2% of rec. divers progress into tec. diving. Let's call it 2% for sake of argument. I'm making up some other figures for sake of discussion. For sake of argument, let's say Shearwater sells a computer to 1/2 of all tec. divers in a region in the United States that has 10,000 divers. Out of 10,000 divers, 1 in 100 buys a Shearwater computer, so 100 Petrels/Perdixes.

I see why scuba industry products are said be be a niche industry!!!

But 98% of that 10,000 divers never do tec. 9,800 rec.-only divers. Due to many competing options in a widely variable market (e.g.: cheap consoles up through LiquiVision Omnix & Suunto Eon Steel), let's say Shearwater can only sell 1 computer to 1 in 100 rec.-only divers. Ouch! So, Shearwater sells 98 Petrels/Perdixes to rec.-only divers.

If I did my math right, after a few years the Shearwater customer base is roughly 50/50 tec./rec. A substantial portion of the rec. community wants A.I. Shearwater is a company legendary in scuba for its dedication to customer service and high customer satisfaction. Other features the rec. community wants will also bear consideration.

In the end, it may not matter what we think Shearwater should do. In several years, it may not matter so much in hindsight what they thought they should do now. Market forces may decide. Whether it's a Perdix in rec. mode, or a separate rec. only/restricted version, we may see more rec. features added. Given the at times vehement opposition to sullying the Petrel with rec.-specific features, I hope it's a separate version (which should make everyone body, though some will rationalize ways not to be!).

P.S.: Apple got mentioned in 1 thread. They offer several product lines, but do not try to be all things to all people. They target product categories where they can bring a revolutionary advance. Compare their lineup diversity to Sony, Samsung, etc... Nowhere close. You can have a modest array of premium products done well.

 

[NAM001]

WOW. You are a baby sitter diver but all you need is a BT for tech dives????? There is no smell of DIR here at all. Bells and whistles are normally for those that do not pay attention to their dive and rely on the computer to tell them when they are pushing the envelope. I suspect that you are far past the need for baby sitting , BUT if you believe you are the type that needs sitting and since you have deemed me as expert then listen up.... Shearwater is not for those that need bells to tell them they have gone too deep, If you have taken you computer out of normal mode and gone to gage mode then you have already taken responsibility for your self awareness of your surroundings and are in charge of your dive, you have already removed the deco responsibility form the puter and used some other TOOL like RD for it. a bottom timer , like a flashlight is a tool. Every tool has its limits and there is a tool for everything. My reference to babysitting diver was not made to imply that if you use a computer you are being baby sat. It was made to reference the degree of dependence divers have on the computer for ALL aspects of the dive. The computer is not a substitute for understanding. Those that have moved on beyond the basic skills have become not so dependent on the computer to tell them when their gass is low, or when they have exceeded PPO2, or have crossed the NDL limit. There are many that do not use computers at all and use depth gages , watch/bottom timers ect. Just like there are those that plan a dive and those that turn that over to the puter.

With the dives you have and the diving you do, you should be the first to understand the intent of the comment.

What are you trying to say?
Do I smell something like DIR here?
Yes I am a baby sitting diver but only need a computer to give me ndl, depth and time. And my Aladin doesn't even has a light for night dive! Can you handle that, expert?
An antique Deco Planner + two BT are good enough to baby sit me for tec dive.

 

[undrwater]

There is a contingent of rec divers that would prefer NOT to have bells and whistles. Many of us, however, do not need trimix or multigas deco bells and/or whistles. We would also like air integration for a number of valid reasons.

Shearwater can maintain their "this device will fail you" attitude, and we'll still be quite happy. I'm still quite happy with my Petrel in rec mode. I'm VERY happy Shearwater came along in the first place.

 

[DevonDiver]

What seems like "bells and whistles" to a rec diver (multi-gas, helium, GF etc) is critical, core functionality to a tech diver.

What seems like "bells and whistles" to a tech diver (AI, deep stops etc) is... still "bells and whistles" for a rec diver.

I get it.... rec divers love bells and whistles... gadgets and gimmicks.... and they pay good money to get them (and mostly never use that functionality afterwards)...

Equipment manufactures 'get it' also... which is why they add all this superfluous crap to their equipment... and charge a premium for it.

That crap sells even better with a liberal sprinkling of cool sounding TLAs (three letter abbreviations)... and adding the words 'tech', 'tec' or 'tek' to the product name.

Tec divers salivate over basic kit, with added functions they don't need, marketed as faux technical diving.

In short, there's demand for the basic kit the rec divers NEED, all wrapped up to give the illusion of being 'very cool' tekkie and advanced. Because... obviously.... if you use 'advanced' (faux) tech 'style' kit... them you must be some sort of 'advanced' diver.... right?

I'm sure that Shearwater could make a pretty profit by pandering to the egos and illusions of those rec divers... but I'm glad (and respect) that they haven't done that.

It seems what people want is a Suunto Zoop wrapped up to look like a Shearwater... for the 'cool' factor.

If so... there already a product on the market to provide that... the Suunto Eon Steel.

But the Suunto Eon Steel isn't cool enough... because it's easily recognised for what it is. Whereas the Shearwater Petrel is 'authentic' and real..

If Shearwater sold out and built a faux-tech machine, what do you think would happen?!? It'd be recognised for what it is.... and it'd be no more desirable than a Suunto Eon Steel.... a flop....