What if all instruction was free...

[WarmWaterDiver]

The best instructor I've had is the one who didn't have diving as his primary source of income. He's an undertaker by profession, and I've heard other instructors ribbing him that this way, he gets his money either way from his students! My wife and I have paid for and received quality one-on-one instruction, and enjoyed extreme schedule flexibility due to the nature of our jobs. None of this was "cheap" but we knew the costs up front and paid up front. When it became apparent the only sure way to schedule our certification dives were to leave for a dive trip outside the US, he started polling his students and organized a trip to Grand Cayman. Then, all students but us backed out - and he still flew to Grand Cayman to complete our training dives. We never expected him to provide THIS level of individual attention, so we offered to pay for all gas fills etc. (this was tech dive training), meals, and 2/3 of his airfare & lodging, which he also saw as fair. The concept of "fair" treatment is what's missing all too often in US society anymore. Sure, this cost more than any of us thought it would, but it was well worth it to all of us too.

On the other hand, my geographically "closest" LDS where the business is the primary source of income for the owner has lost all my business as I was charged for things on equipment maintenance that plain did not take place, and charging prices at times double or more what other shops within 100 miles charged for the same service, and they actually perform the service! Co-workers who have taken classes through the geographically closest LDS have related nothing but complaints too.

So, having shops for scuba run by folks who don't depend on the scuba shop as their primary source of income is maybe a business model for the industry to consider more seriously as the standard. I know where I vote with my wallet at!

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

I've posted elsewhere on SB that my only two certs came from inept instructors. I researched the shops, but didn't know at that time to research the instructors. Besides, the shop scheduled the class weeks in advance, and didn't know who the instructor would be until a couple of days before class started. The program director was an ex-navy diver with lots of smarts, but it didn't filter down to the instructors.

If I hadn't been doing my own research and study, and just followed the instruction, there's a good chance I'd have gotten bent. My OW instructor, in particular, didn't understand the basics of dive physiology, and was recommending that students use their safety stop to their advantage. He said that his practice was to go directly to the surface, take a compass bearing on the boat, then drop back down to 15' and swim to the boat. Even at that point I knew that by going directly to the surface nitrogen bubbles would expand, and it would take much more than returning to 15' for 5 min. to recompress them. I got him fired.

Then there was my Altitude instructor, who required bourdon-tube depth guages, and didn't know how to use one. His error, fortunately, gave us one heck of a safety margin.

On a similar note, for my Bachelor's degree I paid nearly twice as much by attending a private university because I didn't like the program or instructors in the public one. Even then, as every professional knows, a degree might help you get an interview, but it's experience and on-the-job education that counts.

If I had it to do over again, I would probably go for the cheapest mail-order degree, or SCUBA cert. if available, since I have more faith in my self-study abilities then I have in certified instructors. I've learned far more through practice, observation of others, books, magazines, and this site than I ever could from the instructors I've encountered. In my experience, there are plenty of good divers that are willing to share what they know. You just have to weed out the arrogant and self-inflated.

BTW, I'm not really saying that we need to get rid of all instructors. But by all means take your education in your own hands, question everything, practice often, and don't forget to THINK. Don't just believe everything you're told.

 

[cdiver2]

you get what you pay for.
Rick

You only get out of life what you put into it

 

[Mako Mark]

The best instructor I've had is the one who didn't have diving as his primary source of income.

While I dont want to start the "weekend warrior" vs the "fulltime pro" debate, some of the worst instructors I have ever seen are ones that should stick to their dayjob.

When I get asked to teach Tec diving courses, I usually refer those people to instructors that teach tec and only tec, could I teach it myself, yep, do I want to teach lots of tec diving, nope, thats what I do on the weekend to get away from students.

While I know that there are exceptions, I worry about the part time professionals.

 

[jayray]

I agree with u because my girlfriend wants to scuba dive but can't because of money reasons,so i guess i'll have to scrounge up some money somewhere.

 

[lhpdiver]

Well thank you all for your comments. I started a lengthy response earlier but stopped because I was just rambling. I think some of you understand where I was coming from. It wasn't the cost of the instruction but the spirit (zen) of the instruction. I certainly didn't mean to threaten anyone. I think this concept of recreational diving is great. Maybe these 10 second spots PADI is taking out on the radio/tv will draw a lot of new people in to try the water. I guess in a way I would like to increase the chances they will keep at it. I think that requires more nurturing.

 

[jbd]

I guess in a way I would like to increase the chances they will keep at it. I think that requires more nurturing.

You seem to be alluding to the fact that so many people get certified to dive but don't stick with it. You seem to infer that there might be a corelation between the quality of training and the retention of divers. To a degree I think you are correct but I also think that many if not most people get certiifed just for one trip into the water and then they are done because thats all they ever wanted to do with it. There are those that never gained any sense of confidence in their training and are in essence too afraid to continue. Not one of the 9 other people in my original OW class are still diving. My buddy in that class was learning strictly for that one trip so he could be with his friends that wanted to go diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Believe me - I could fix your computer - and do most any carpentry/electrical/plumbing stuff that your house would ever need!! The amount of time and money it's taken me to learn this is simply most of my life - and I'm 52. Is that comparable? Now I work in Japan teaching English (the CELTA diploma I hold also cost money and time). My point was - who's time is more valuable - yours or mine? I'm prepared (in principle) to trade you on a one to one basis. I'm not asking for any charity here - and I've made damn sure that I can send my own kids to school. (which, in spite of your comments I bet you have too - or at least I hope so!!)

My reply wasn't only to you Kim. The point is that nothing is free. It costs some one money. I trade services with other pros often but when people talk about free dive training I think they're talking about a one way thing where the instructor works for free as punishment for being an instructor or something.

 

[lhpdiver]

My reply wasn't only to you Kim. The point is that nothing is free. It costs some one money. I trade services with other pros often but when people talk about free dive training I think they're talking about a one way thing where the instructor works for free as punishment for being an instructor or something.

I am not (was not) instructor bashing. But I guess I am commenting on the instructional / educational process.

In my area there is a successful surf shop. Every Saturday they offer free surfing lessons to the kids. They provide the equipment free. My wife and I walk on the beach in the morning. I will estimate that on a given Saturday something like 100 kids (and many of their parents) show up at 7AM.

http://www.islandwatersports.com/events-upcoming.cfm

I'm sure they sell alot of surboards and bathing suits, but hey - that's quite a community service they are providing.

Another example - the Power Squadron - kind of like the Coast Guard Auxilary. They routinely offer free (or close to it) classes on power boat safety etc. Those people really know their stuff and they love to pass it along.

Ah but diving is different right ? It costs alot of money to become an instructor. (In reality alot more than $3000.) But maybe that was the point of my original post. Well what if it didn't ? Ah well somebody has to train them and that costs money. Well what if it didn't ? What if somebody just loved to pass it along.

I agree with you. Recreational diving is purely a luxury passtime.
Every diver should have the best equipment they can afford and it should be well-maintained. And the industry should police that the least equipement that someone can afford better be more than adequate. But maybe the current educational / training scheme is a little warped. This tired approach to learning, maybe it has been minced up too much. Step 1 - $199, Step 2 - $249, Step N $3000.

I don't make my living from the diving industry (at the moment anyway). But if I did - I would be doing my darnedest to figure out how to get 100 kids and their parents down at the other end of the beach on saturday morning with tanks on (and maybe some snorkels). And I doubt they'd show up if there was an admission fee, and I doubt they'd show up if they were handed a cost schedule that looked like a semester at college.

Sure the instructor who sits in a pool on a wednesday night with 8-10 students until 11PM is entitled to compensation. Probably alot more than they are getting. But maybe if rather than 8-10 new students taking the one and only scuba class they will ever take because of the way is was handled, the anxiety, the lump cost etc., there was a mixture of "continuing education" going on in the pool, where people actually knew each other, and were growing together (and paying but maybe more of on a sort of subscription basis as proposed by someone earlier) - maybe then more people would stay with the sport, more equipment would be sold, the cost of the equipment would come down, more kids would aspire to be the next Jacques Cousteau...

Just my .02

 

[Uncle Pug]

I and I doubt they'd show up if they were handed a cost schedule that looked like a semester at college.

About college that is.... I mean it is getting soooo expensive...

What if college were free!!??!!

I mean, think about it! Any one who wanted a college education could have one if college were free. If professors would just teach for the love of seeing folks get a free education we would have more folks getting college degrees and some of them could become professors and teach other students for free!

I was thinking about free food too. If there were more restaurants that served free meals... and not just soup kitchen stuff either... I'm talkin' some high end dinning. If more restaurants served free gourmet dinners a lot of folks who never get to eat out would be able too.

Where would the food come from you ask? Well I'll tell you: from the free food farms of course. There are farmers who love farming... and I'm sure that they could give away cows and vegetables for free since cows make more cows and vegetables grow out of the dirt for free.

I would like a free car too. I think BMW makes enough money selling real BMWs that they could give away Mini Coopers. I like Mini Coopers. I would like one for free.