What if all instruction was free...

[Kim]

I agree with you totally. I paid $450 for my OW training in Venezuela. Wether the instructor - or the shop - got the money, I don't know. The point is - I didn't expect it for free and was prepared to pay that amount - at that time - for it. My OW instructor was very good and nothing I learnt from others since has deviated from the original concepts that he taught me. I still consider it money very well spent. He taught me in a one on one basis - no other students. The course included all rental/boat fees. In all my diving education I've either been taught individually - or with one other person - my Rescue class was together with the boss's girlfriend - IANTD classes with my wife. Maybe I've been lucky - but I certainly wouldn't accept less now!!

 

[Kim]

I heard that trimix is illegal in Japan...Have you heard anyting about that. Anyway, I've never seen it, so that in itself would probably put the nix on trimix training...

JAG

Which is exactly my point! It's hard to find instructors in some parts of the world. In Fukuoka I have yet to find somewhere that will give even a Nitrox fill - let alone Trimix. I don't know if Trimix is actually illegal - it might be. It wouldn't surprise me as the Japanese are good at banning anything they don't understand. As far as I know there are no qualified Japanese instructors for this level of diving. My mate is a Japanese instructor - we've been diving together now for 4 years - he hasn't got a clue about Nitrox!

 

[MikeFerrara]

If dive training were free for instructors it would be an improvement for me. LOL


GUE has the right idea inthat they charge for the class plus instructor expenses.

 

[cdiver2]

When I was first certified (73) my "BASIC SCUBA DIVER" certification took about 10 weeks and the instructor (PADI #2083) taught us everything he knew about diving. I don't remember the cost but I was a college student so it couldn't have been much.

If there were that sort of mentailty today maybe you wouldn't need all the different levels. Maybe there would be more of a mentor-like environment. Maybe the pace would slow, people would lose their anxiety, they would actually practice and their regular meetings with their mentors would reinforce their progress. I'll bet there'd be alot of peer information sharing. Dive shops could have movie night where they show video of proper/different techniques.

Of course the instructor could still accept tips (much like a boat based DiveMaster). Who knows - they might be better off.

Does this already exist somewhere ?

I like you was trained by the BSAC in the early 70s and do like the idea of club training. One of the draw backs that have been pointed out in the past was that students do not want to take that long before getting certified. I don't understand this as they are diving , just under a mentor and would probably get some better dives than they would had they got there c-card in a week and then your on your own.

Instructors don't want anyone to get it for free (just look at the posts in this thread instructor=no) they all think they can get someone else to pay for there diving.
Will they ever get to make a living at it no, the only people to get rich from it are Theo's at the top of the organizations but you can dream.
Yes I would instruct ( and have done) for free....in a club setting.

Another plus for the club way is a lot of BSAC clubs have club equipment for anyone in the club to use including new students, a lot of clubs also have there own boats, compresses, makes for a lot of cheap diving.

 

[Mako Mark]

Of course the instructor could still accept tips (much like a boat based DiveMaster). Who knows - they might be better off.

lhpdiver..... what exactly do you do for a living and would you be prepared to do it for tips? Who knows, you might be better off...

Yes it does exist somewhere, anyone who has been to Cuba and had their bag carried by a doctor of medicine who is working for tips at the airport will probably tell you that this is a REALLY dumb idea.

Yes.

Tony, if you want to work for free, Ill give you a job.... lol

the point is that the reason quality diving instruction is hard to find is NOT because it's too expensive.... it's because it's TOO CHEAP.

If I had it my way, classes would be a month long and cost $3000.... and they'd be worth every penny....

-david

Right on dude. If you think of comparable job situations where the life of the client is in the hands of the professional (medical professionals, pilots etc), then scuba professionals are way underpaid.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey if one of you guys want to put a roof on my house for free I'll teach you to dive for free.

If you don't want to put a roof on my house or give me money I don't care if you dive or not.

 

[Kim]

Hey if one of you guys want to put a roof on my house for free I'll teach you to dive for free.

If you don't want to put a roof on my house or give me money I don't care if you dive or not.

Now that's a truely interesting concept! I watched a program not so long ago on BBC World - It was about something called a Time Bank. The main idea was not about what you did - but how long you took to do it. Therefore someone who needed something done asked someone who could do it - the person who did the work got credited for their time - and could then use the time to employ someone else for the same amount of time to do something else. Basically a barter process - based on time - not perceived value. It gets rid of money, interest, normal banks etc - and would probably freak most capitalists out completely. I loved it!!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Now that's a truely interesting concept! I watched a program not so long ago on BBC World - It was about something called a Time Bank. The main idea was not about what you did - but how long you took to do it. Therefore someone who needed something done asked someone who could do it - the person who did the work got credited for their time - and could then use the time to employ someone else for the same amount of time to do something else. Basically a barter process - based on time - not perceived value. It gets rid of money, interest, normal banks etc - and would probably freak most capitalists out completely. I loved it!!

Barter systems of course aren't anything new. Of course my point was that since everything costs me money including becomming an instructor and teaching (many thousands of dollars in fact) why should I spend my time and money teaching for free. If I do that how will I get a new roof for my house.

If I and some other instructors pitch in and make sure others have free dive instruction will those folks pitch in and make sure that we have the things that we need?

I'm all for cherity but training healthy, ablebodied people in recreational activities that no one needs to do just doesn't seem to qualify.

No matter how you look at it the cost of instruction is high. We can pay for it by selling you equipment, we can charge you what it costs (or more) or we can pay for it ourselves.

You could even pay for it out of the assets of a club that you pay dues to belong to but why in hell would I want to foot the bill for your dive education out of my own pocket?

I'd rather help send your kids to school but I can't afford to do that either. I am currently accepting donations for my own kids education costs though. Just PM me if you'd like to contribute...or if you have the resources to get a roof on my house. ok, I'd even be happy if you could cover this months car payment.

 

[Kim]

Barter systems of course aren't anything new. Of course my point was that since everything costs me money including becomming an instructor and teaching (many thousands of dollars in fact) why should I spend my time and money teaching for free. If I do that how will I get a new roof for my house.

If I and some other instructors pitch in and make sure others have free dive instruction will those folks pitch in and make sure that we have the things that we need?

I'm all for cherity but training healthy, ablebodied people in recreational activities that no one needs to do just doesn't seem to qualify.

No matter how you look at it the cost of instruction is high. We can pay for it by selling you equipment, we can charge you what it costs (or more) or we can pay for it ourselves.

You could even pay for it out of the assets of a club that you pay dues to belong to but why in hell would I want to foot the bill for your dive education out of my own pocket?

I'd rather help send your kids to school but I can't afford to do that either. I am currently accepting donations for my own kids education costs though. Just PM me if you'd like to contribute...or if you have the resources to get a roof on my house. ok, I'd even be happy if you could cover this months car payment.

Believe me - I could fix your computer - and do most any carpentry/electrical/plumbing stuff that your house would ever need!! The amount of time and money it's taken me to learn this is simply most of my life - and I'm 52. Is that comparable? Now I work in Japan teaching English (the CELTA diploma I hold also cost money and time). My point was - who's time is more valuable - yours or mine? I'm prepared (in principle) to trade you on a one to one basis. I'm not asking for any charity here - and I've made damn sure that I can send my own kids to school. (which, in spite of your comments I bet you have too - or at least I hope so!!)

 

[scubatexastony]

Rick nailed it on the head..."you get what you pay for". Just try and get an education for free, or a roof! (BTW, Mike, if that was aimed at me, I don't do residential....even hate re-roofing my own )

Thanks Mark, I have a job. Diving is a hobby. And teaching and mentoring would be the same, a hobby, for the love of the sport. A couple years ago, my wife finally decided she would learn to dive. I hate to admit, her instructor was more concerned with paint ball equiptment sales than his class, but he had a good line when we interviewed shops. He actually made it to the second day of "open water".

This whine and cheeze began with some reminiscing of days gone by and a fortunate student, as was I. Fact is, we still paid for the classes and instruction and proportionally more than one would pay today. (inflation and all) We're on a fast-track mentality these days, and it's the nature of all we do.