What happened to PST

[spectrum]

4 years ago when we were gearing up and buying PST HP cylinders they were already in trouble and this was a hot topic then.

The wisdom that surfaced was that anyone can submit the application to renew. Providing there are no disturbing reports on file relating to the permitted cylinders it's pretty much an automatic renewal. The engineering for the product has long since been completed and none is required for renewal.

I forget who this came from but It was as I recall a respected source. Hopefully somebody truly on top of this procedure can stop by to confirm / update on the matter.

Pete

 

[shinobi226]

I called transport canada recently concerning two PST tank that i was about to buy used and told me that any individual or company could get the 'equivalency certificate' renewed

you can find further information on renewal here:Permits - Transportation of Dangerous Goods - Safety - Transport Canada this is not valid for DOT exemption renewal

I also wondered if 200$ each for two PST Hp 100 cf was a good price, guy told me original hydro is 2006, was that even possible, i mean was the company PST still in function in 2006?

 

[shinobi226]

Just so that you know the DOT exemption expiration date is May 31th 2011

here is the DOT exemption papers

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/PHMSA/SPA_App/OfferDocuments/SP9791_2007060054.pdf

 

[PhilEllis]

4 years ago when we were gearing up and buying PST HP cylinders they were already in trouble and this was a hot topic then.

The wisdom that surfaced was that anyone can submit the application to renew. Providing there are no disturbing reports on file relating to the permitted cylinders it's pretty much an automatic renewal. The engineering for the product has long since been completed and none is required for renewal.

I forget who this came from but It was as I recall a respected source. Hopefully somebody truly on top of this procedure can stop by to confirm / update on the matter.

Pete

I also remember that discussion quite well. What was NEVER explained is the application process for getting a renewal and the cost of that renewal for DOT qualified cylinders. I know the government quite well. I can PROMISE you that if such a process is available to individual users, the process is 1) not easy 2) not cheap 3) not user friendly and probably not worthwhile for anything less than a corporate organization with future profit potential.

I would strongly believe that there is a process to allow renewal of a package exemption by a user. This would be essential to protect industrial cylinder users from being "orphaned" by the bankruptcy or dissolution of a supplier. However, in such circumstances, I am still certain that making such an application requires some inside "knowledge" of how the process works and is likely not inexpensive.

I called transport canada recently concerning two PST tank that i was about to buy used and told me that any individual or company could get the 'equivalency certificate' renewed

I often wondered if anyone at PST even renewed that CT equivalency certificate. I wonder if it is possible that there was some sort of "automatic" renewal. NONE of the PST contact information on that renewal certificate is valid now and none of it was valid on the day the certificate was dated. Further, there was no obvious continuing PST business when the renewal took place.

I also wondered if 200$ each for two PST Hp 100 cf was a good price, guy told me original hydro is 2006, was that even possible, i mean was the company PST still in function in 2006?

In 2006, PST was selling off the remaining inventory from much earlier production. The 2006 hydro date simply indicates the date of the first hydro. I know they (PST) had quite a difficult time selling the very small quantity of remaining cylinders in the market. At the very end, they were even selling and shipping them to individual consumers, if they could find one interested.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the DOT special permit when that date finally arrives.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

 

[Scott L]

I often wondered if anyone at PST even renewed that CT equivalency certificate. I wonder if it is possible that there was some sort of "automatic" renewal. NONE of the PST contact information on that renewal certificate is valid now and none of it was valid on the day the certificate was dated. Further, there was no obvious continuing PST business when the renewal took place.

What is the function and purpose of the CT equivalency certificate? I would venture to guess it has something to do with a commercial general liability insurance issue.

 

[PhilEllis]

What is the function and purpose of the CT equivalency certificate? I would venture to guess it has something to do with a commercial general liability insurance issue.

I honestly don't know. I expect it is a process for approving Canadian hazardous packaging when the package does not exactly fall into one of the predefined standards. Much the same as a special permit by the DOT here in the United States. I would be surprised if PST continues to maintain any commercial general liability insurance. After all, they don't even exist anymore. Their phone number has even been reassigned. It now answers as Karma Spas.

Maybe someone with real working knowledge of this process in Canada will chime in and tell us.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[oxyhacker]

I have talked this over with the PHMSA exemptions people on numerous occasions, and it appears from everything they tell me that the process is simply and doesn't cost anything. Basically, one tank owner has to apply to them for a "use" exemption, which allows using the tank, but not making more. Once it is granted (which will take a month or so) other tank owners then become a party to that exemption by just contacting the DOT and asking to be added to it. I would urge anyone who doubts or wonders about this to call them and ask, so we can doublecheck what I have been told. rather than speculating endlessly here about it. Oh, the application form is on the PHMSA website if anyone wants to see it - this is not black magic, gas suppliers get use exemptions all the time.

BTW the DOT exemption dept is really hoping that PST (if anything remains of it by then) will renew the exemption, since it will create an incredible amount of paperwork for them if PST doesn't. In the case of the Norris expiration they were very pro active in getting Norris to renew it after Norris had decided not to, doubtlessly part of the reason was that the DOT didn't want to extra work if they Norris didn't, but all the same it saved the tank owners a lot of hassle, and I think the PHMSA exemptions people deserve a lot of credit for it.

I also remember that discussion quite well. What was NEVER explained is the application process for getting a renewal and the cost of that renewal for DOT qualified cylinders. I know the government quite well. I can PROMISE you that if such a process is available to individual users, the process is 1) not easy 2) not cheap 3) not user friendly and probably not worthwhile for anything less than a corporate organization with future profit potential.

Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

 

[Scott L]

I honestly don't know. I expect it is a process for approving Canadian hazardous packaging when the package does not exactly fall into one of the predefined standards. Much the same as a special permit by the DOT here in the United States. I would be surprised if PST continues to maintain any commercial general liability insurance. After all, they don't even exist anymore. Their phone number has even been reassigned. It now answers as Karma Spas.

Maybe someone with real working knowledge of this process in Canada will chime in and tell us.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

My apologies. I posted while also watching college football. I was referring to the special permit by US DOT. My background is insurance. As such, I would be willing to wager that this is the issue. If the brand is not desired by those who intend future use, hence "gives it value" the end is near. Check out link. With special attention to "a tail"....

Business Insurance - Claims Made Policy or Occurrence Policy

 

[oxyhacker]

Under the DOT regs, it is just as illegal to fill the tank as to hydro it once the SP/exemption expires. However this does not necessarily mean the idea is a bad one.

My feeling is that since so many tanks are involved, many dive shops will go on filling them regardless of the exemption status, at least as long as they are in hydro. It is perfectly legal for them to do so, at least, as far as the DOT is concerned, if the tanks are privately owned.

So a last-minute hydro may gain a few years' more use in the real world, even if not according to the regs. However, if it doesn't work, that is to say, if the dive shops start refusing to fill them, if you have a lot of these tanks you could waste a lot of money on unecessary hydros by doing so. Which is why I will be putting my faith in the "use" exemption approach, explained earlier.

Unless I hear otherwise, MY plan is to re-hydro EVERYTHING April 2011 so at a minimum they will be 'legal' through May 2016.....them I can postpone a major temper tantrum until 2016 !

 

[Scott L]

I have talked this over with the PHMSA exemptions people on numerous occasions, and it appears from everything they tell me that the process is simply and doesn't cost anything. Basically, one tank owner has to apply to them for a "use" exemption, which allows using the tank, but not making more. Once it is granted (which will take a month or so) other tank owners then become a party to that exemption by just contacting the DOT and asking to be added to it. I would urge anyone who doubts or wonders about this to call them and ask, so we can doublecheck what I have been told. rather than speculating endlessly here about it. Oh, the application form is on the PHMSA website if anyone wants to see it - this is not black magic, gas suppliers get use exemptions all the time.

BTW the DOT exemption dept is really hoping that PST (if anything remains of it by then) will renew the exemption, since it will create an incredible amount of paperwork for them if PST doesn't. In the case of the Norris expiration they were very pro active in getting Norris to renew it after Norris had decided not to, doubtlessly part of the reason was that the DOT didn't want to extra work if they Norris didn't, but all the same it saved the tank owners a lot of hassle, and I think the PHMSA exemptions people deserve a lot of credit for it.

It's gotta boil down to responsibility and money like anything else. I guess the speculation will continue...