DIR- GUE What does GUE mindset mean?

[Germie]

So if a certified GUE diver chooses to sometimes dive a non GUE equipment configuration......or dive SOLO....... then are there any repercussions or "pushback" from other GUE divers or the GUE organization?

No. Also if you don't renew for 3 years, just pay and you get your cert back. In this the difference between other agencies at this is that they directly give you a card without expiration date.

But it is not forbidden to dive solo or take other equipment if you have a gue cert. Like it is not forbidden to have a padi card and an ssi card. I have teached divers with a gue card from fundies to c2 for example self sufficient or normoxic trimix, or ART. They don't get into trouble or something. The only thing is that gue instructors are officially not allowed to dive solo.

That is why I wrote already that you can dive with 'gue mindset' without a gue card, or can have a gue card and dive without its 'gue mindset'.

In this topic again, an agency is set as 'best cult'. But at the end, the differences are small. Better is to talk about 'team mindset' or something in my eyes. Not all instructors from all agencies teach team mindset the same way, but in all books it is written. And in some books there is a chapter about solo technical diving, which is not part of the gue curriculum of course.

I never had a problem of diving with gue/dir orientated divers or with divers that are absolutely not. I think it is a good idea that all divers know about the advantages and disadvantages of 'best mix' diving and the same with standardgases, because also standardgases have disadvantages. In my opinion the best divers are the divers that are open for both and then can dive in a team. Also 'mixed' teams with oc backmount, sidemount and ccr are never a problem. I never had big discussions about diveplans for trimixdives. But here a thing happens that I do not like. There are divers teached by only using a computer and they don't have any feeling about a diveplan without using a computer. Or get lazy and forgot what they learned. If you give me a diveplan to do 15 minutes at 100m, every normal plan will give a total divetime between 95 and 115 minutes divetime, then it are only details that must be discussed. But also here it is not that 1 agency does it worser than others, it is the indivual diver who does it. I have seen divers who absolutely told me they do 20m/minute swimming in a no flow cave. I have seen gue divers who forgot that if you do 20 minutes at 60m, the total divetime will be around 60 minutes.
This has to do with the diver itself, if you don't practise anymore, you level goes down. So maybe we have to add practising as right mindset for every techdiver, not only dir or gue.

 

[RedSix]

@Germie
Why do you think, you are the right person to explain GUE mindset?

 

[Germie]

@Germie
Why do you think, you are the right person to explain GUE mindset?

I don't explain, I just give my opinion. Like others also do. But a lot of people here don't know how it was 13-14 years ago. Some state that gue does not change for example, but also they do. Some believe because they have a gue cert that they are all knowing and the best. But then there are examples that also gue divers are human and can make mistakes. The 'right' tool changed over years, and is still changing. The courses from all agencies come closer to each other.
The thing dir with started was 'team diving' and that is what they took. In the beginning gue was dir, but they also went away from dir as that was too negative for a lot of people. Halcyon had on their equipment 'Dir'. Gue started with 'doing it right, the fundamentals of better diving'.
They were and are not the only that talked about dir, also Swedtech for example did or does, they also teached ration deco, deco on the fly, etc, and earlier than gue did.
The backplate, wing and twinset with longhose is not dir, it is hogarthian diving. There it started with techdiving.
The thing gue did well is the fundamentals course, but I don't agree that this is needed for every diver. Divers can also get on that level by just training on themselves.
But if we talk about 'gue mindset', one thing that is not done within this mindset is solo diving. They always talk about team diving. So that is the mindset in my eyes. But it is also a mindset that other divers also can have and does not say anyting about a card you have. You don't loose a card if you do it different.

The biggest problem I have with people is when they state that only their way is right, and they know it all. This is independent of agency. At the end we all have to deal with the same physics and we all breath from the same mouthpiece. I talk to every diver, respect them all, from cmas to padi to gue. They all do it as a hobby and they all don't want to die, they all dive as safe as possible.
But all divers are human and this means mistakes are made. Every year divers die because they took the wrong gas, because they did not mark things. Sometimes because they had to know, sometimes because they could not know.
I am just a diver like others that wants to dive safe. That is what I also tell to others. I know even if you dive safe, there is a risk of dcs, every diver can get it. There are not statistics that proof that 1 agency has more accidents and incidents than another. But for example what I try to change is that there is in no book written that divers just diving air must label their tank. In no open water book it is written. In books about solodiving they talk about pony bottles, but not about marking a tank if there is air in it. I only can ask that they change books, just add 1 scentence. And maybe we have then 1 accident less.

But back to the mindset, I think that 'team diving' is the main thing about the mindset. And from what I see in history maybe it is the only one. I will not be the almighty god that knows all, I will not be the person who tells the only strict rule. I only give here my opinion with my nowadays knowledge and experience.

 

[overthinking_diver]

I thought GUE was trying to maintain some basic standards. Jesus... There is no institution you can trust in this day and age...

I din't pass my fundies so don't give up on GUE quite yet

 

[lostsheep]

So if a certified GUE diver chooses to sometimes dive a non GUE equipment configuration......or dive SOLO....... then are there any repercussions or "pushback" from other GUE divers or the GUE organization?

No. Also if you don't renew for 3 years, just pay and you get your cert back. In this the difference between other agencies at this is that they directly give you a card without expiration date.

But it is not forbidden to dive solo or take other equipment if you have a gue cert. Like it is not forbidden to have a padi card and an ssi card. I have teached divers with a gue card from fundies to c2 for example self sufficient or normoxic trimix, or ART. They don't get into trouble or something. The only thing is that gue instructors are officially not allowed to dive solo.

That is why I wrote already that you can dive with 'gue mindset' without a gue card, or can have a gue card and dive without its 'gue mindset'.

In this topic again, an agency is set as 'best cult'. But at the end, the differences are small. Better is to talk about 'team mindset' or something in my eyes. Not all instructors from all agencies teach team mindset the same way, but in all books it is written. And in some books there is a chapter about solo technical diving, which is not part of the gue curriculum of course.

I never had a problem of diving with gue/dir orientated divers or with divers that are absolutely not. I think it is a good idea that all divers know about the advantages and disadvantages of 'best mix' diving and the same with standardgases, because also standardgases have disadvantages. In my opinion the best divers are the divers that are open for both and then can dive in a team. Also 'mixed' teams with oc backmount, sidemount and ccr are never a problem. I never had big discussions about diveplans for trimixdives. But here a thing happens that I do not like. There are divers teached by only using a computer and they don't have any feeling about a diveplan without using a computer. Or get lazy and forgot what they learned. If you give me a diveplan to do 15 minutes at 100m, every normal plan will give a total divetime between 95 and 115 minutes divetime, then it are only details that must be discussed. But also here it is not that 1 agency does it worser than others, it is the indivual diver who does it. I have seen divers who absolutely told me they do 20m/minute swimming in a no flow cave. I have seen gue divers who forgot that if you do 20 minutes at 60m, the total divetime will be around 60 minutes.
This has to do with the diver itself, if you don't practise anymore, you level goes down. So maybe we have to add practising as right mindset for every techdiver, not only dir or gue.

While I know this is not official GUE policy, when I inquired with my local GUE instructor about doing tech1 I was told verbatim if I didn’t commit 100% to the GUE configuration, “it would be a problem.” That removed the last bit of interest I had in T1.

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't explain, I just give my opinion. Like others also do. But a lot of people here don't know how it was 13-14 years ago. Some state that gue does not change for example, but also they do. Some believe because they have a gue cert that they are all knowing and the best. But then there are examples that also gue divers are human and can make mistakes. The 'right' tool changed over years, and is still changing. The courses from all agencies come closer to each other.
The thing dir with started was 'team diving' and that is what they took. In the beginning gue was dir, but they also went away from dir as that was too negative for a lot of people. Halcyon had on their equipment 'Dir'. Gue started with 'doing it right, the fundamentals of better diving'.
They were and are not the only that talked about dir, also Swedtech for example did or does, they also teached ration deco, deco on the fly, etc, and earlier than gue did.
The backplate, wing and twinset with longhose is not dir, it is hogarthian diving. There it started with techdiving.
The thing gue did well is the fundamentals course, but I don't agree that this is needed for every diver. Divers can also get on that level by just training on themselves.
But if we talk about 'gue mindset', one thing that is not done within this mindset is solo diving. They always talk about team diving. So that is the mindset in my eyes. But it is also a mindset that other divers also can have and does not say anyting about a card you have. You don't loose a card if you do it different.

The biggest problem I have with people is when they state that only their way is right, and they know it all. This is independent of agency. At the end we all have to deal with the same physics and we all breath from the same mouthpiece. I talk to every diver, respect them all, from cmas to padi to gue. They all do it as a hobby and they all don't want to die, they all dive as safe as possible.
But all divers are human and this means mistakes are made. Every year divers die because they took the wrong gas, because they did not mark things. Sometimes because they had to know, sometimes because they could not know.
I am just a diver like others that wants to dive safe. That is what I also tell to others. I know even if you dive safe, there is a risk of dcs, every diver can get it. There are not statistics that proof that 1 agency has more accidents and incidents than another. But for example what I try to change is that there is in no book written that divers just diving air must label their tank. In no open water book it is written. In books about solodiving they talk about pony bottles, but not about marking a tank if there is air in it. I only can ask that they change books, just add 1 scentence. And maybe we have then 1 accident less.

But back to the mindset, I think that 'team diving' is the main thing about the mindset. And from what I see in history maybe it is the only one. I will not be the almighty god that knows all, I will not be the person who tells the only strict rule. I only give here my opinion with my nowadays knowledge and experience.

I don’t think you knew how it was 14 years ago.

“Omg someone defriended me on social media over a yellow reg”…Okay.

 

[overthinking_diver]

On a more serious note, let me address the actual OP. I can't talk about GUE mindset but I can talk about how GUE changed my own mindset about diving.

It comes to one simple rule - if there are two ways of doing something you always chose the better way. Even if the benefit is marginal, or the other way is "fine" or "good enough". You especially don't pick the worse way because it's easier (like using a zip tie instead of cave line to attach stuff). Sometimes the better way requires a lot of training and practice, I still have a lot of work to do in many areas.

You can see this rule present in all other GUE rules. Some quick examples, both big and small:

• Team vs solo diving. It's clearly better to have a competent buddy or buddies than to be alone.
• Equipment standardization. It's clearly better to know every detail of your buddy's equipment - where they keep everything, what's in which pocket, etc.. In general, knowing is always better than not knowing. Standardized equipment makes this easier.
• Standard procedures. You need to know how your buddy donates gas, which regulator they'll give you, how are you going to handle the exit after the donation. This is easier if you share the same procedures.
• Goodman handle vs a wrist strap for a primary light. Goodman handle lets you remove the light if you want. On a night dive on a liveaboard with instabuddies it probably doesn't matter but being able to do something is always better than not being able to do it.
• Cave line vs zip ties to attach stuff. One allows you to cut it under water, the other doesn't. Being able to do something is better that not being able to do it.
• Having good trim and good fin technique is better than having bad trim and poor technique. So if like me you're not quite there yet, you don't declare it "good enough" but you keep working at it and keep improving.

This is what "do it right", not DIR - the overloaded diving term, but the English phrase actually means if you think about it.

I know we all dive to get better at life, so this rule also applies to all other aspects of life

 

[mariosx]

I din't pass my fundies so don't give up on GUE quite yet

Same, but at least it wasn't for lacking fundamental assembling and disassembling skills during land drills.

 

[Lorenzoid]

It comes to one simple rule - if there are two ways of doing something you always chose the better way. Even if the benefit is marginal, or the other way is "fine" or "good enough".

I know you emphasized this is just your own "mindset" and you're not trying to explain a "GUE mindset" of the original question in the thread. But I would say I don't share this mindset. Or at least I'm not fixated on "the better way" if the benefit is truly arguable.

The difficulty is that many ways of doing things have pros and cons, and it often isn't clear which is the better way. In Fundies, I liked being taught a specific way of doing something that the instructor believed was best (and the instructor's reasoning behind that choice). I get the impression you liked that, too. Later in cave class with a non-GUE instructor, it was explained to me in at least a couple of instances that there are different ways to do something, and some divers will do it this way while others do it that way. He explained the pros and cons of each way. I found it ever so slightly unsettling, yet I greatly appreciated it. It's good to understand that if some divers believe there is a marginal benefit to doing it one way, other divers may see a similar marginal benefit to doing it a different way. The instructor would not have told me there is more than one way to do it if one way had clearly been better than the other. I am beginning to understand that the further one progresses along the cave or tech path, the more one will encounter things that are amenable to doing different ways, each with its pros and cons.

As to the original question, I'm satisfied with Germie's distillation that the mindset (if there really is such a thing) is team diving, and that a diver can have a team-diving mindset and be GUE-trained or have a team-diving mindset and not be GUE-trained.

 

[crofrog]

So if a certified GUE diver chooses to sometimes dive a non GUE equipment configuration......or dive SOLO....... then are there any repercussions or "pushback" from other GUE divers or the GUE organization?

GUE could revoke your certifications if they wanted to…

That being said as it comes to mindset, I don’t want to dive alone I enjoy diving in a team mate and it’s safer