DIR- GUE What does GUE mindset mean?

[overthinking_diver]

I'm not an expert on DIR, so don't quote me on this, but I believe I read somewhere that assembling your gear when not blindfolded is preferred. I think it has something to do with vision being beneficial to making sure you don't make any mistakes and your gear is setup correctly. It's also helpful during pre-dive checks like GUE EDGE.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, I've only taken fundies. Maybe in C1/C2 you do everything blindfolded to prepare for a potential zero vis situation. Do you drive to the dive site blindfolded too?

 

[BlueTrin]

I'm not an expert on DIR, so don't quote me on this, but I believe I read somewhere that assembling your gear when not blindfolded is preferred. I think it has something to do with vision being beneficial to making sure you don't make any mistakes and your gear is setup correctly. It's also helpful during pre-dive checks like GUE EDGE.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, I've only taken fundies. Maybe in C1/C2 you do everything blindfolded to prepare for a potential zero vis situation. Do you drive to the dive site blindfolded too?

you should email him to tell him he forgot to check the IP blindfolded and that he should use a checklist blindfolded

 

[mariosx]

I'm not an expert on DIR, so don't quote me on this, but I believe I read somewhere that assembling your gear when not blindfolded is preferred. I think it has something to do with vision being beneficial to making sure you don't make any mistakes and your gear is setup correctly. It's also helpful during pre-dive checks like GUE EDGE.

Someone should correct me if I'm wrong, I've only taken fundies. Maybe in C1/C2 you do everything blindfolded to prepare for a potential zero vis situation. Do you drive to the dive site blindfolded too?

Post and user name checks out.
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Did you guys seriously didn't learn, during your GUE-F class, how to assemble and disassemble your regs, perdix, primary light, spg, and compass while blindfolded wearing 7mm gloves? This is core in the GUE mindset, before every predive check.

I thought GUE was trying to maintain some basic standards. Jesus... There is no institution you can trust in this day and age...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Blindfolded? Is that all? A true dive guru can disassemble and reassemble a reg by telekinesis.

 

[Germie]

There is no 'GUE' mindset, as there is no 'Padi' mindset. I think you can describe the 'gue mindset' best as team diving. But having a gue card does not mean that the diver always has a 'gue mindset'. And not having a gue card does not mean the diver has no 'gue mindset'.
There are enough divers with gue certs that also do solodiving.

In 2010, gue was 'dir mindset'. Then they skipped the word 'dir' as some people saw 'DIR' as a cult. And sometimes it was, in the beginning, you absolutely needed to have black gear. I have been deleted by 'a friend' on facebook because I dove yellow regulators and had a blue cable on my light and then bought a pink drysuit. But dir or gue does not talk about colors. They also don't talk about brands, a lot of people think it must be halcyon, heser, and santi or dui.

But in that time sidemount and ccr was still 'forbidden', if you did that, it was no 'gue mindset'. But people with gue certs started doing it more and more. As the chimney must smoke in every agency, you have to do something. stagnation means decline.
So a sidemount course and a ccr course was developped with a 'gue mindset', the teamdiving. The idea of standard equipment has changed.
So the person who said you have to follow the rules and don't ask questions is wrong. You see in gue also that they change, like every agency. Also you see that they develop more courses, like any other agency. So the curriculilum has changed. It is listening to divers, if you don't do that as agency, you will loose the divers. Times changes, so as agency you must change. And that is what happened, not only in gue of course. Partly because of earning money is for every agency important. The basic mindset 'team diving' did not change. And you can dive in 1 dive with the 'gue mindset' and in another dive solo without any problem.

 

[digitalMechanic]

...
But in that time sidemount and ccr was still 'forbidden', if you did that, it was no 'gue mindset'. But people with gue certs started doing it more and more. As the chimney must smoke in every agency, you have to do something. stagnation means decline.
So a sidemount course and a ccr course was developped with a 'gue mindset', the teamdiving. The idea of standard equipment has changed.

It’s interesting that you brought up CCR and sidemount, since I think they highlight another aspect of the GUE mindset that hasn’t been brought up yet - “the right tool for the job”.
Unlike other agencies that would offer training on these configurations at any level, including recreational, just to appease the crowds - GUE believes that the added complexity involved in these tools is only worth while for specific tasks. This is why CCR is only offered after Tech1, because It makes sense for tech dives, and since every CCR diver can find themselves as on OC diver after bailout, GUE believes that you must be a competent OC tech diver before you start training on CCR.
Similarly, sidemount is only taught in the contex of cave diving and only after Cave2, since you should be a skilled and experienced cave diver before attempting restrictions that require a sidemount config.

 

[Germie]

It’s interesting that you brought up CCR and sidemount, since I think they highlight another aspect of the GUE mindset that hasn’t been brought up yet - “the right tool for the job”.
Unlike other agencies that would offer training on these configurations at any level, including recreational, just to appease the crowds - GUE believes that the added complexity involved in these tools is only worth while for specific tasks. This is why CCR is only offered after Tech1, because It makes sense for tech dives, and since every CCR diver can find themselves as on OC diver after bailout, GUE believes that you must be a competent OC tech diver before you start training on CCR.
Similarly, sidemount is only taught in the contex of cave diving and only after Cave2, since you should be a skilled and experienced cave diver before attempting restrictions that require a sidemount config.

I do not agree with this completely.
The right tool for the job can be sidemount for beginner divers when they cannot carry their cylinders on the back. Sometimes the strict rule of the tool is too rigid. For example I had a diver in a wheelchair who wanted to do cave diving. Not that serious stuff, but at least cavern and a little bit into complete darkness. The diver was able to fin on itself, but only with splitfins. The diver was able to dive with a drysuit, but had a big pushbutton from doors in a hospital and so to fill the drysuit with air. In a real problem, the diver was able to close the valve on the back, but the diver was not able to use a normal inflator, so had a bcd with a handle, an Aqualung Ixiom. This bcd is not suitable for a twinset. But you can attach a ponybottle or stage cylinder and then you have made a twinset.
We have teached the cavern course with 2 instructors and went on the last dive 150m in a cave. The dream of this diver was fullfilled. All was done according to standards (the cavern can be done with single tank, but was not allowed in the cave we teached it as we needed a permit that stated 2 cylinders, with on both cylinder an spg, even if it was a twinset), but such a thing is impossible with gue. Not all divers want to do exploration and some are not able to. This diver wanted to know what cave diving was and in the 6 dives we did, the diver explored on his own level. Now the diver wants to go to Mexico for some guided cavern diving.

Another diver I know has his ankles fixed rigid in a 90 degree, otherwise walking was not possible anymore. He has done a fundamentals course, but failed. And only because of his finkicks are not as they have to be. But he can't use his foot like we do. He now has a ccr, dives without problems on wrecks to 100m.

These examples still have the team spirit, are teamdivers, AND can have in my opion the gue mindset, but cannot use the tool that most people can use. But they are not unsafe, they found a way to dive and to dive safe.

So use the right tool for the job, yes.

But in my opinion you must be more open to other configurations.
Why is it unsafe to do a cave course in sidemount config? What is the problem with that?
What is unsafe with sidemount in open water?
I agree that maybe sometimes too much courses are made to please divers, or to sell cards. But there is a market for it.

Also, what changes my teamspirit mindset/gue mindset when I use sidemount in open water? Nothing. Also if someone uses a normal bcd.

But use the right tool nowadays like ccr and sidemount was a wrong tool in 2010. So also gue changes. And I guess they will change in the future too like others do. The Shearwater computer is now also accepted.
In 2010, there was also no dpv course. Now they have.
DPV in open water courses, also from gue, are most times sold as 'fun', so is that tool needed then? Most times absolutely not. But yes, diving with a dpv gives a lot of fun.
CCR was first only possible after T2, not already after T1. This means they also change here. Why was it in earlier days not a right tool before T2?

So the right tool is in my opinion not part of a gue or dir mindset. You must look at safety. Is the tool safe? What is the problem when using it? Nothing? So why is that then wrong?

But I agree that starting open water diving with a ccr is the other side, I have never teached that. But I have seen some advanced open water divers with a ccr that can use this tool really well. But photographers are most times not diving according to 'gue mindset' as they are really good solodivers

 

[digitalMechanic]

I do not agree with this completely.
The right tool for the job can be sidemount for beginner divers when they cannot carry their cylinders on the back. Sometimes the strict rule of the tool is too rigid. For example I had a diver in a wheelchair who wanted to do cave diving. Not that serious stuff, but at least cavern and a little bit into complete darkness. The diver was able to fin on itself, but only with splitfins. The diver was able to dive with a drysuit, but had a big pushbutton from doors in a hospital and so to fill the drysuit with air. In a real problem, the diver was able to close the valve on the back, but the diver was not able to use a normal inflator, so had a bcd with a handle, an Aqualung Ixiom. This bcd is not suitable for a twinset. But you can attach a ponybottle or stage cylinder and then you have made a twinset.
We have teached the cavern course with 2 instructors and went on the last dive 150m in a cave. The dream of this diver was fullfilled. All was done according to standards (the cavern can be done with single tank, but was not allowed in the cave we teached it as we needed a permit that stated 2 cylinders, with on both cylinder an spg, even if it was a twinset), but such a thing is impossible with gue. Not all divers want to do exploration and some are not able to. This diver wanted to know what cave diving was and in the 6 dives we did, the diver explored on his own level. Now the diver wants to go to Mexico for some guided cavern diving.

Another diver I know has his ankles fixed rigid in a 90 degree, otherwise walking was not possible anymore. He has done a fundamentals course, but failed. And only because of his finkicks are not as they have to be. But he can't use his foot like we do. He now has a ccr, dives without problems on wrecks to 100m.

These examples still have the team spirit, are teamdivers, AND can have in my opion the gue mindset, but cannot use the tool that most people can use. But they are not unsafe, they found a way to dive and to dive safe.

So use the right tool for the job, yes.

But in my opinion you must be more open to other configurations.
Why is it unsafe to do a cave course in sidemount config? What is the problem with that?
What is unsafe with sidemount in open water?
I agree that maybe sometimes too much courses are made to please divers, or to sell cards. But there is a market for it.

Also, what changes my teamspirit mindset/gue mindset when I use sidemount in open water? Nothing. Also if someone uses a normal bcd.

But use the right tool nowadays like ccr and sidemount was a wrong tool in 2010. So also gue changes. And I guess they will change in the future too like others do. The Shearwater computer is now also accepted.
In 2010, there was also no dpv course. Now they have.
DPV in open water courses, also from gue, are most times sold as 'fun', so is that tool needed then? Most times absolutely not. But yes, diving with a dpv gives a lot of fun.
CCR was first only possible after T2, not already after T1. This means they also change here. Why was it in earlier days not a right tool before T2?

So the right tool is in my opinion not part of a gue or dir mindset. You must look at safety. Is the tool safe? What is the problem when using it? Nothing? So why is that then wrong?

But I agree that starting open water diving with a ccr is the other side, I have never teached that. But I have seen some advanced open water divers with a ccr that can use this tool really well. But photographers are most times not diving according to 'gue mindset' as they are really good solodivers

As was previously mentioned in this thread, team diving is maybe the number one aspect of the GUE mindset. A key aspect of that is standardized equipment and procedures - the fact that I can jump into the water with any GUE diver and be 100% familiar with their equipment and how to operate it is one of the biggest benefits of being a GUE diver IMO. I’ve had my share of insta-buddies near-misses in the past that almost caused me to stop diving - GUE eliminates that problem for me (yes, my selection of buddies is more limited, but I know I can trust them).
This is not to say that non-GUE divers must be worst. Even the divers you mentioned that had various disabilities may well be excellent divers and great buddies - but to do so, their teammates would need to be intimately familiar with their disabilities and the various tools required to accommodate them.
You need to remember that the GUE curriculum was made with the intention of training divers that can take part in various projects - and this is why standardization is such a big part of it.
And of course GUE adapts over time - as dive computers became more reliable, they were accepted by the agency. But you still won’t find a GUE course that relies on a computer. CCR was moved after T1 since the price of helium started to get out of hand. For me, these are just proofs against the claim that “GUE is all about following the rules without adaptation”.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

So if a certified GUE diver chooses to sometimes dive a non GUE equipment configuration......or dive SOLO....... then are there any repercussions or "pushback" from other GUE divers or the GUE organization?

 

[Lorenzoid]

So if a certified GUE diver chooses to sometimes dive a non GUE equipment configuration......or dive SOLO....... then are there any repercussions or "pushback" from other GUE divers or the GUE organization?

Does this have anything to do with the "GUE mindset" that is the topic of this thread? It's a good question, and it has been discussed before. But I have difficulty relating it to the "mindset" topic.