DIR- GUE What does GUE mindset mean?

[jborg]

people keep repeating this

People keep bringing it up as some sort of theoretical bogeyman, doesn't mean there's any substance to it. I don't know how any of us could shoot it down beyond asking for some sort of proof that it's ever happened, or that there is a mechanism in place to make this happen, or anything along those lines...

The only official stance I know of is what I was told by my GUE instructor during the only course I have taken, and it was the usual/expected/reasonable "we teach our system, what you do afterwards is your business, take it or leave it" like any other agency.

GUE Instructors are expected to behave as positive examples for GUE, and there are defined repercussions for when they don't, such as losing their instructor status. I think things are much the same in that regard in other agencies.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I don’t think it would happen, I am just wondering because people keep repeating this and it’s not shot down immediately.

As far as I know, there is nothing in the GUE Standards that mentions whether a cert can or cannot be revoked, and if that's so, then there is no way for any of us who are not privy to GUE's internal workings to shoot it down or dismiss it as an absolute impossibility. It's hard to imagine that GUE or any other agency has the bandwidth or desire to keep tabs on their divers after they finish a course.

But apart from instructors, I just can't see what revoking a cert would achieve. If a diver wants to pick and choose from among the GUE rules to apply on their dive, the only real effect would be that the diver may be limiting their potential pool of dive buddies. Why would GUE HQ care?

 

[steinbil]

I just find it peculiar that in a thread where someone who's potentially interested in GUE classes, asks GUE divers, in the GUE forum, about something relating to GUE training, people who are not GUE divers and not even interested in GUE feel the need to give their take on what the answer should be, or spout BS, or ask loaded questions...

 

[Lorenzoid]

I just find it peculiar that in a thread where someone who's potentially interested in GUE classes, asks GUE divers, in the GUE forum, about something relating to GUE training, people who are not GUE divers and not even interested in GUE feel the need to give their take on what the answer should be, or spout BS, or ask loaded questions...

The options are (a) ignore it, (b) use the Report button, or (c) try to read the question in the best possible light and craft a patiently and politely worded reply. Griping here is not cool.

 

[SpeedyJ]

As far as I know, there is nothing in the GUE Standards that mentions whether a cert can or cannot be revoked, and if that's so, then there is no way for any of us who are not privy to GUE's internal workings to shoot it down or dismiss it as an absolute impossibility. It's hard to imagine that GUE or any other agency has the bandwidth or desire to keep tabs on their divers after they finish a course.

1.8.5 Executive Suspension of Membership
GUE membership, GUE teaching privileges, and GUE diving credentials are a privilege and not a right. Membership in GUE may be rescinded and GUE credentials may be revoked at any time by GUE at its discretion.

Pretty much every agency has something like this - though GUE does take QA quite a bit more seriously than other agencies.

 

[overthinking_diver]

As far as I know, there is nothing in the GUE Standards that mentions whether a cert can or cannot be revoked, and if that's so, then there is no way for any of us who are not privy to GUE's internal workings to shoot it down or dismiss it as an absolute impossibility.

I did a 5 minute google search and apparently there is! Here are the standards - https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.2.pdf. Look at 1.8.5 Executive Suspension of Membership. It says:

GUE membership, GUE teaching privileges, and GUE diving credentials are a privilege and not a right. Membership in GUE may be rescinded and GUE credentials may be revoked at any time by GUE at its discretion.

So they *could* revoke your cert or your instructor status if they wanted to.

That being said, I don't get what would be the point. If they revoked someone's cave card for renting a jacket BC and diving to a 40ft reef, that person would be understandably upset, they'll complain loudly online and no one will take a GUE cave class again. I think we can assume GUE is run by reasonable people.

 

[kierentec]

I just find it peculiar that in a thread where someone who's potentially interested in GUE classes, asks GUE divers, in the GUE forum, about something relating to GUE training, people who are not GUE divers and not even interested in GUE feel the need to give their take on what the answer should be, or spout BS, or ask loaded questions...

I think a lot of times people feel the need to justify their own opinions despite any facts presented. Confirmation bias is prevalent everywhere, politics are a great example. There’s a particular individual that comments on GUE related questions presented in Facebook groups that screams from the rooftops about how GUE requires certain brands of gear and other nonsense. For years, I would respond and correct it every time I saw it. I would be very courteous in my responses, He would then change the subject and go on a very aggressive rant about how I’m a dinosaur who doesn’t know anything about cave diving because I dive primarily backmount. I eventually had to block him because he started trolling me like crazy. When he realized he was blocked, he sent my wife a super aggressive message about how I’m a baby.

This stuff happens a lot, especially here on SB, and what I’ve heard said on dive boats is remarkable. I try to correct it when I see it, but people have already made up their minds and refuse any facts presented. It’s frustrating, but it’s human nature. I know they will never change their position, but I want others to know that what they are saying simply isn’t true, otherwise we risk that individual going along with the rumors and hearsay that have no merit. It consumes a lot of time and energy that many of us simply choose not to expend, we are generally too busy diving and teaching. I have to take a break from it often, which is why you don’t see me on here or social media very consistently.

I did a 5 minute google search and apparently there is! Here are the standards - https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.2.pdf. Look at 1.8.5 Executive Suspension of Membership. It says:



So they *could* revoke your cert or your instructor status if they wanted to.

That being said, I don't get what would be the point. If they revoked someone's cave card for renting a jacket BC and diving to a 40ft reef, that person would be understandably upset, they'll complain loudly online and no one will take a GUE cave class again. I think we can assume GUE is run by reasonable people.

True, it CAN happen, but is super rare and is generally with very good reason.

As to the OP: It’s been said already, but the “mindset” revolves around team diving, safety, fun and community. As long as you feel similar, most GUE divers and instructors are happy to get in the water with you.

 

[Lorenzoid]

One of the posts above brought up the hypothetical potential for conflicts between different agencies' teachings. @kierentec , could we trouble you to explain how you navigate that? Or is it a stupid question?

 

[kierentec]

One of the posts above brought up the hypothetical potential for conflicts between different agencies' teachings. @kierentec , could we trouble you to explain how you navigate that? Or is it a stupid question?

Carefully

But in all seriousness, I do strongly believe in GUE and the “mindset”, but didn’t always. I’ll have an article coming out in indepth relatively soon talking about my transition into GUE.

I teach all my other classes using GUE SOPs with very little variation. If you don’t have the mindset described above and are planning to dive using the SOPs that I teach in class, we probably won’t be working together. Not because I’m not willing to, but there’s probably other instructors that are a bit more “loosey goosey”, as one of my students once put it, that would be a better fit for you.

Because the other agencies don’t have any specific SOPs and very vague standards, there’s no issue with them in regards to how I teach.

It’s a really difficult balance at times. But I’ve found I have a much greater reach to bring divers into the fold than instructors at my level who only teach GUE. It’s very common (like 90%) for a student to sign up for a DPV cave or rebreather class claiming they have the skills to meet the Fundies Tech Pass standards, and realize on day 1 they are nowhere close. They sign up for fundies by the end of the week. People just don’t know what they don’t know, no matter how many YouTube videos they’ve watched or scubaboard threads they’ve read So while not ideal, I find teaching at higher levels through other agencies allows me to “spread the gospel” to a much wider audience.

 

[crofrog]

This stuff happens a lot, especially here on SB, and what I’ve heard said on dive boats is remarkable. I try to correct it when I see it, but people have already made up their minds and refuse any facts presented. It’s frustrating, but it’s human nature. I know they will never change their position, but I want others to know that what they are saying simply isn’t true, otherwise we risk that individual going along with the rumors and hearsay that have no merit. It consumes a lot of time and energy that many of us simply choose not to expend, we are generally too busy diving and teaching. I have to take a break from it often, which is why you don’t see me on here or social media very consistently.

The editors letter in quest 24-1 was interesting