DIR- GUE What does GUE mindset mean?

[PfcAJ]

I just find it peculiar that in a thread where someone who's potentially interested in GUE classes, asks GUE divers, in the GUE forum, about something relating to GUE training, people who are not GUE divers and not even interested in GUE feel the need to give their take on what the answer should be, or spout BS, or ask loaded questions...

 

[Cthippo]

I teach all my other classes using GUE SOPs with very little variation. If you don’t have the mindset described above and are planning to dive using the SOPs that I teach in class, we probably won’t be working together. Not because I’m not willing to, but there’s probably other instructors that are a bit more “loosey goosey”, as one of my students once put it, that would be a better fit for you.

There are aspects to the GUE approach I like, and would like to learn (advanced buoyency and finning techniques), but I have no interest in team diving or caves. Sooner or later I would like to find a GUE instructor to teach just those aspects of diving.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I’ve been following GUE/DIR since 1999 (24 years now). At one point, (actually at several points), I was very interested in trying the system and taking the class but due to $$ and logistics it never happened. Now I’m old and I’m over it. I just do my own thing.

Anyway, I think GUE is missing a huge public service they could be providing. If they were to expand more into the recreational market they could be doing some great things with new under trained divers fresh out of OW. The problem is not even so much what it costs, it’s the gear restrictions that create a barrier to entry.
There are a lot of OW divers who purchased jacket BC’s, air2’s etc. and all the rest of the gear that is non compliant in the eyes of GUE, but for them to re-tool would be a non starter.
If only GUE had some sort of “better recreational diving” course that they could offer to regular recreational divers and be more inclusive of gear that people already own.
They could start with things like cleaning up ones trim, eliminating danglies and securing consoles. Explain the reason it’s so important to keep gear from banging into coral and the reefs. Next they could teach them proper weighting, trim, propulsion techniques, etc. let them use their jackets and split fins to try it and then have them try other fins and gear better suited and let the student have an epiphany about better gear. Teach them about team diving, or just proper buddy diving. For instance, the “If you get separated from your buddy, look around for a minute then resurface to re join up” is not good buddy diving.
That’s a whole minute that two divers (possibly brand new) are solo diving including an ascent, unacceptable protocol for buddy diving. I recently looked through my OW manual specifically about proper buddy diving protocols and there really wasn’t any. The only thing they really tell you is to not dive alone, but they don’t tell you how to be a good buddy team, the mechanics of making it work, and to make sure that never breaks down.
There’s more teaching materials out there now on solo diving than there is on buddy diving!

And let them use air too, but then include a nitrox cert.
Wink wink

Some students may really get inspired and decide to take a full blown fundamentals course and move that direction.
Basically GUE could and would be doing recreational scuba diving a huge service just by cleaning up the mess that the other alphabet agencies leave behind with what they DON’T train and what they leave out.
Consider it like a supplement for those that just want to be better divers with the gear they already have.
The other agencies are too spotty with quality instructors and you never know who you’ll get.
The “it’s not the agency it’s the instructor” line is getting really old and stale to hear.
The other agencies are not doing enough to keep their brand image quality up by allowing flakey instructors to teach under their name.
But I think given GUE’s unwavering brand quality and consistency in instructorship they could be an industry leader. It’s wide open.

 

[kierentec]

I’ve been following GUE/DIR since 1999 (24 years now). At one point, (actually at several points), I was very interested in trying the system and taking the class but due to $$ and logistics it never happened. Now I’m old and I’m over it. I just do my own thing.

Anyway, I think GUE is missing a huge public service they could be providing. If they were to expand more into the recreational market they could be doing some great things with new under trained divers fresh out of OW. The problem is not even so much what it costs, it’s the gear restrictions that create a barrier to entry.
There are a lot of OW divers who purchased jacket BC’s, air2’s etc. and all the rest of the gear that is non compliant in the eyes of GUE, but for them to re-tool would be a non starter.
If only GUE had some sort of “better recreational diving” course that they could offer to regular recreational divers and be more inclusive of gear that people already own.
They could start with things like cleaning up ones trim, eliminating danglies and securing consoles. Explain the reason it’s so important to keep gear from banging into coral and the reefs. Next they could teach them proper weighting, trim, propulsion techniques, etc. let them use their jackets and split fins to try it and then have them try other fins and gear better suited and let the student have an epiphany about better gear. Teach them about team diving, or just proper buddy diving. For instance, the “If you get separated from your buddy, look around for a minute then resurface to re join up” is not good buddy diving.
That’s a whole minute that two divers (possibly brand new) are solo diving including an ascent, unacceptable protocol for buddy diving. I recently looked through my OW manual specifically about proper buddy diving protocols and there really wasn’t any. The only thing they really tell you is to not dive alone, but they don’t tell you how to be a good buddy team, the mechanics of making it work, and to make sure that never breaks down.
There’s more teaching materials out there now on solo diving than there is on buddy diving!

And let them use air too, but then include a nitrox cert.
Wink wink

Some students may really get inspired and decide to take a full blown fundamentals course and move that direction.
Basically GUE could and would be doing recreational scuba diving a huge service just by cleaning up the mess that the other alphabet agencies leave behind with what they DON’T train and what they leave out.
Consider it like a supplement for those that just want to be better divers with the gear they already have.
The other agencies are too spotty with quality instructors and you never know who you’ll get.
The “it’s not the agency it’s the instructor” line is getting really old and stale to hear.
The other agencies are not doing enough to keep their brand image quality up by allowing flakey instructors to teach under their name.
But I think given GUE’s unwavering brand quality and consistency in instructorship they could be an industry leader. It’s wide open.

This is all great, and I don't disagree that it could benefit the overall diving community. However, you have to remember that GUE is a very small organization. Only about 150 active instructors worldwide, I think. It's important to keep it that small to maintain the quality control. It's difficult to reach the masses with that small of a physical presence.

HOWEVER, we have had a pretty massive impact on the diving industry as a whole without touching everyone individually. Look how many open water courses are taught in a BP/W and longhose now. The big training agencies are pushing stability and nuetral buoyancy from the OW level. While GUE can't take all of the credit for that, I know many instructors that peek over there should at dive sites to watch what we do and listen in to briefings and debriefings and watch out land drills. So while we might not be able to reach the masses on an individual basis, a lot of what you are wanting to see in the industry is happening. There's a long way to go and without some major changes happening at the top we won't see a significant change across the board, but I do think there's progress being made.

Over the last few years, we have started putting a lot of effort into the recreational programs, but I don't think changing the equipment configuration requirements is in the cards.

 

[Lorenzoid]

There are aspects to the GUE approach I like, and would like to learn (advanced buoyency and finning techniques), but I have no interest in team diving or caves. Sooner or later I would like to find a GUE instructor to teach just those aspects of diving.

The "team diving" I learned in Fundies was little more than what any good buddy pair should be doing. Sure, on a tech or cave dive, team members have more roles than that. But for the OW rec diver, what Fundies teaches is just another name for good buddy skills.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Anyway, I think GUE is missing a huge public service they could be providing. If they were to expand more into the recreational market they could be doing some great things with new under trained divers fresh out of OW.

GUE offers a series of recreational courses.

Explore GUE Courses

We put all of our efforts into providing the training that suits you best. Your instructor will guide you through the course registration process, advise which course materials to read as part of pre-study before the training starts, and lead you through the preparations so you will be able to...

www.gue.com

The problem is not even so much what it costs, it’s the gear restrictions that create a barrier to entry.
There are a lot of OW divers who purchased jacket BC’s, air2’s etc. and all the rest of the gear that is non compliant in the eyes of GUE, but for them to re-tool would be a non starter.
If only GUE had some sort of “better recreational diving” course that they could offer to regular recreational divers and be more inclusive of gear that people already own.

Diving is expensive. That's just the way things are. But a basic set of OW gear that meets GUE standards doesn't really cost that much. If it's a priority for you then you'll find a way to scrape up the money. And instructors sometimes have proper gear available to rent.

They could start with things like cleaning up ones trim, eliminating danglies and securing consoles. Explain the reason it’s so important to keep gear from banging into coral and the reefs. Next they could teach them proper weighting, trim, propulsion techniques, etc. let them use their jackets and split fins to try it and then have them try other fins and gear better suited and let the student have an epiphany about better gear.

I can't speak for GUE instructors, but based on the classes that I've taken or observed that seems totally impractical. Instructors already struggle to get the slower students through all of the course material. There just isn't time to jerry-rig one student's non-standard gear into some semblance of order while the other students sit around getting bored.
If you showed up for a mountain biking skills course with a fixed-gear beach cruiser would you expect the instructor to spend hours modifying it into something marginally acceptable?

Teach them about team diving, or just proper buddy diving. For instance, the “If you get separated from your buddy, look around for a minute then resurface to re join up” is not good buddy diving.
That’s a whole minute that two divers (possibly brand new) are solo diving including an ascent, unacceptable protocol for buddy diving. I recently looked through my OW manual specifically about proper buddy diving protocols and there really wasn’t any. The only thing they really tell you is to not dive alone, but they don’t tell you how to be a good buddy team, the mechanics of making it work, and to make sure that never breaks down.
There’s more teaching materials out there now on solo diving than there is on buddy diving!

And let them use air too, but then include a nitrox cert.

The Recreational Diver 2 course includes nitrox.

Wink wink

Some students may really get inspired and decide to take a full blown fundamentals course and move that direction.
Basically GUE could and would be doing recreational scuba diving a huge service just by cleaning up the mess that the other alphabet agencies leave behind with what they DON’T train and what they leave out.
Consider it like a supplement for those that just want to be better divers with the gear they already have.
The other agencies are too spotty with quality instructors and you never know who you’ll get.
The “it’s not the agency it’s the instructor” line is getting really old and stale to hear.
The other agencies are not doing enough to keep their brand image quality up by allowing flakey instructors to teach under their name.
But I think given GUE’s unwavering brand quality and consistency in instructorship they could be an industry leader. It’s wide open.

All divers can benefit from DIR, but DIR is not for all divers. And that's fine.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Well I tried.
I wish the best of luck to you guys, hope your agency works out and does well.

 

[crofrog]

The Recreational Diver 2 course includes nitrox.

Nitrox 32 is in rec 1

 

[BlueTrin]

There are aspects to the GUE approach I like, and would like to learn (advanced buoyency and finning techniques), but I have no interest in team diving or caves. Sooner or later I would like to find a GUE instructor to teach just those aspects of diving.

You can ask a GUE instructor if they would be happy to do a few days of coaching outside a class. He/She may or may not oblige but if they aren’t too fully booked, some will accept.

 

[Ranga]

I’ve been following GUE/DIR since 1999 (24 years now). At one point, (actually at several points), I was very interested in trying the system and taking the class but due to $$ and logistics it never happened. Now I’m old and I’m over it. I just do my own thing.

Anyway, I think GUE is missing a huge public service they could be providing. If they were to expand more into the recreational market they could be doing some great things with new under trained divers fresh out of OW. The problem is not even so much what it costs, it’s the gear restrictions that create a barrier to entry.
There are a lot of OW divers who purchased jacket BC’s, air2’s etc. and all the rest of the gear that is non compliant in the eyes of GUE, but for them to re-tool would be a non starter.
If only GUE had some sort of “better recreational diving” course that they could offer to regular recreational divers and be more inclusive of gear that people already own.
They could start with things like cleaning up ones trim, eliminating danglies and securing consoles. Explain the reason it’s so important to keep gear from banging into coral and the reefs. Next they could teach them proper weighting, trim, propulsion techniques, etc. let them use their jackets and split fins to try it and then have them try other fins and gear better suited and let the student have an epiphany about better gear. Teach them about team diving, or just proper buddy diving. For instance, the “If you get separated from your buddy, look around for a minute then resurface to re join up” is not good buddy diving.
That’s a whole minute that two divers (possibly brand new) are solo diving including an ascent, unacceptable protocol for buddy diving. I recently looked through my OW manual specifically about proper buddy diving protocols and there really wasn’t any. The only thing they really tell you is to not dive alone, but they don’t tell you how to be a good buddy team, the mechanics of making it work, and to make sure that never breaks down.
There’s more teaching materials out there now on solo diving than there is on buddy diving!

And let them use air too, but then include a nitrox cert.
Wink wink

Some students may really get inspired and decide to take a full blown fundamentals course and move that direction.
Basically GUE could and would be doing recreational scuba diving a huge service just by cleaning up the mess that the other alphabet agencies leave behind with what they DON’T train and what they leave out.
Consider it like a supplement for those that just want to be better divers with the gear they already have.
The other agencies are too spotty with quality instructors and you never know who you’ll get.
The “it’s not the agency it’s the instructor” line is getting really old and stale to hear.
The other agencies are not doing enough to keep their brand image quality up by allowing flakey instructors to teach under their name.
But I think given GUE’s unwavering brand quality and consistency in instructorship they could be an industry leader. It’s wide open.

I've previously avoided commenting on this thread as I am still a relatively new diver with little experience of GUE outside of what I've read online, however this comment really hit a chord with me.

I've felt basically since learning about Fundies that the scuba industry really could use an equivalent for the typical vacation diver. I'm sure there's a large number of people out there who are interested in being the safest diver they can be, but also will only ever be diving a rental jacket BCD with yoke regs in standard rec set-up.

It may be that GUE don't want a part of that market, I just wish that someone would fill that gap. Sure there may be individual instructors doing that as part of their PPB couse or similar, but SB in general makes it sound way easier than it actually is to evaluate instructors prior to a lesson, particularly if you're not already immersed in online discussions and magazine articles.