What do you think about Advanced Open Water Diver Certification?

[Blackwood]

NAUI and I believe 1 other agency offer rescue diver irrespective of AOW.

And, I believe that most agencies have text akin to "or equivalent" in their requirements, for which experience often counts.

I have at least two certs which directly require "advanced open water or equivalent," and both instructors accepted experience in lieu of that cert (which I do not hold).

 

[dwhthediver]

Lastly, you didn't violate your training. Your OW card says you are ready to plan and execute dives up to 130 foot.

No, O/W students are taught to plan and execute dives to 60' and told deeper requires further training.

 

[drbill]

Given the requirements for OW certification these days, I think the instructor was right. I consider AOW to be a minimum level certification given current training. When I was certified "OW" in the 60s our training covered things through the current rescue diver cert. Of course we didn't have all the fancy gear to learn about (and I wouldn't dive without most of it now). After nearly 40 years of diving, I finally got an AOW cert because many of the PADI instructors who checked my original c-card had no idea what the agency (LAC) required and they made me do check-out dives to prove my skills.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Not with every agency. SEI divers are techincally certed to 100 feet with the recommendation that they not exceed 60 feet without gaining further experience and knowledge, or additional training.

In fact emergency deco procedures for dives to 100 feet are taught in the OW class.

If leading a dive as a professional I cannot take an OW diver beyond 60 feet unless I am training them in an AOW class. And even if just buddying up I won't take a new OW diver beyond that. But if their logbook shows previous deep experience and an interview tells me they know the theory I want them to for deep dives, and their skills are up to snuff it's another matter. There are members on this board who only have an OW card that they have had for forty years. Am I going to tell them they are limited to 60 feet? Heck no.

Divers are limited to 60 feet in training. What they do after is completely in their hands and dependent on their skills, experience, risk analysis, and judgment. If someone wants to go to 100 feet the next weekend they can. It's stupid IMO but not against any law or even rule that can be enforced by anyone.

Just wanted to add that any pro who takes a new diver with less than stellar skills to 100 feet right after OW is not someone I'd want to teach anyone I cared about. Or any DM that leads a group of OW divers they just met to those depths as is common in some parts of the world is also asking for trouble and risking those divers' lives unnecessarily.

 

[DevonDiver]

No, O/W students are taught to plan and execute dives to 60' and told deeper requires further training.

Technically speaking you are both right:

OW training goes to a maximum depth of 18m/60ft.

AOW training goes to a maximum depth of 30m/100ft, but the minimum depth for the deep dive is 19m/63ft.

Students are taught, via 'Safe Diving Practices' to dive within the limits of their training and experience.

However, the actual PADI wording in regards to certification recommended depths is:



Newly Certified Open Water Divers - 18m/60ft
General Recommended Diving Limit - 30m/100ft
Absolute maximum for Recreational Divers - 40m/130ft

So...actually the recommendations made to divers contradict themselves. There seems to be more emphasis on experience relating to depth progression, wheras the certification link is purely based on the "and" between training and experience..

 

[TMHeimer]

The key word for depth is "recommended". 60' for PADI OW, but I don't believe it is described when one can exceed that as an OW diver. For example, if a diver has 1,000 dives perhaps. Also, it is pretty much condoned that you can exceed 60' if with a pro as your buddy--ei.- hiring a DM. Now your experience level is higher though you certification is not. Of course, the fact that some charters won't allow you on dives below 60' in and of itself is probably a good reason to do AOW. Plus, of course, you learn new stuff. You also have to figure at least the deep dive and one other dive means a charter boat, and just doing a days diving on a boat would cost a fair bit anyway. I would agree with Jim that Rescue should be available without having AOW. I can't talk about insurance, as I don't carry personal insurance figuring our great socialist medicine will cover me most of the time.

 

[fire_diver]

No, O/W students are taught to plan and execute dives to 60' and told deeper requires further training.

If that is how you train your students, then you are doing them a disservice! The OW card is supposed indicate the new diver has been given all the skill and knowledge require to make dives within the NDL which includes 130 FSW.

The 60 foot "limit" is a recommendation to new divers to expand thier diving experience slowly and incrementally. It is NOT to limit them to an arbitrary depth because you have no faith inyour teaching methods to allow them to go deeper.

But go ahead, keep churning out half-trained divers.

 

[DevonDiver]

Also, it is pretty much condoned that you can exceed 60' if with a pro as your buddy--ei.- hiring a DM.

I'd like to see you provide a reference to illustrate that, because I don't believe that any mainstream agency has such a policy, formal or informal.

A DM qualification in no way trains or certifies a Divemaster to take a qualified diver beyond the limits of their training or experience. A Divemaster is not an instructor - they aren't authorized to teach new skills, or provide new knowledge. The agencies consider deeper diving to require increased skills and knowledge. In fact, AOW Deep Dives are one of the few elements of training that at DM specifically cannot guide, without direct instructor supervision...

What I believe you are talking about is the prevalence of 'trust me dives' carried out by some dive pros, in the interests of profit rather than diver safety.

Trust me dives are not "condoned".

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

The reason I ask is because I currently don't have mine. I have 50+ dives in 7 months of diving. I was asking someone if they wanted to dive with me this week, he could not, but was going to send a student of his to me that I could dive with. To clarify, he is an dive instructor. We talked about where I had just dove resently and he ask me if I had my Advanced Cert, I told him no.

He refused to send me a dive student to dive with me as I was diving above my certification like I broke the law. I have done some deep dives, a few open wreck dives, the Cenotes in Cancun, and some shore diving which is considered Advanced.

A friend who has 30 dives and was Certified with me did her Advanced Cert when she had 10 dives, we are both about the same when it comes to diving. I can't see that doing 5 advanced dives out of 17 different possible types of dives you can do make you an advanced diver in any one dive type. It is sort of like being OW cert after 4 dives, that is not sufficient to make you a diver, not even close.

I guess some Instructors believe in instruction only, vs. experience, experience and then instruction and learning.

I am very safe and love to dive, I just felt offended by this incident and wanted to get some feedback?

Looking at the dives that you have done, sounds like he didn't want some one fresh out of OW to learn what he viewed as your bad habits! I got my AOW the same week as my OW, but I understood that it meant nothing without me diving, I still have a lot to learn. It probably is a good thing as far as some dive ops are concerned because if something happens to you, you or your family can't come back and sue saying they took you somewhere beyond your training level.

 

[redacted]

Borrow an AOW book and read it. Then decide if that is something you need to spend a couple hundred $$ on. If you need the instructor or need the card quickly, you may not have much choice. Very few ops care about an AOW card. They want to observe your skills.

I never took an AOW course as I had no desire to go pro. I was issued the card by an agency that accepted my experience as AOW equivalent for a solo diver course.

In this case, the instructor may have been more concerned about his recent OW student than he was about you.