What do I need to do different??

[Tegg]

Buoyant FULL steel tanks. That would be a first.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Funny, I've never seen on a map of a cave how close to neutral the explorers were.



How important is this again? I plan my gas consumption based on what I need for the dive, not how much it weighs.

 

[ucfdiver]

Funny, I've never seen on a map of a cave how close to neutral the explorers were.



How important is this again? I plan my gas consumption based on what I need for the dive, not how much it weighs.

There are some pretty serious (deadly) consequences for being under weighted given an emergency.

 

[cbrich]

Buoyant FULL steel tanks. That would be a first.

I am guessing Faber does not sell too many of them, kinda defeats the purpose of why most recreational folks buy steel tanks.

 

[ucfdiver]

I am guessing Faber does not sell too many of them, kinda defeats the purpose of why most recreational folks buy steel tanks.

*sigh* you really don't like math, do you?

 

[JahJahwarrior]

There are some pretty serious (deadly) consequences for being under weighted given an emergency.

I thought Tobins concern was being overweighted?

In doubles I'm only underweighted when I remove the manifold then the tanks to wiggle through a no mount restriction...

And I wear a drysuit and a wing to provide redundancy for the fact that doubles, three stages and two deco bottles weigh a little...

 

[ucfdiver]

I thought Tobins concern was being overweighted?

In doubles I'm only underweighted when I remove the manifold then the tanks to wiggle through a no mount restriction...

And I wear a drysuit and a wing to provide redundancy for the fact that doubles, three stages and two deco bottles weigh a little...

I think he's arguing both sides, stating that you should be able to maintain deco stops if you have to escort a buddy out sharing gas, as well as be able to maintain buoyancy if a wing fails or suit floods.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I don't see how you can sink a drysuit, unless you mean with tanks. Of course you can sink the suit with (full) tanks. I think what Tobin is getting at, is that when the suit is +15, you need at least 15-17 lbs (taking into account lung volume) of weight on you, however you accomplish that.

BTW undergarments in a suit do NOT compress because the suit is balanced with external pressure.

It's pretty close. With no air in my dry suit, in a vertical position, when I exhale, my face will drop into the water. Just did it today. No cylinders, no rig, no fins or mask.

Some undergarments will compress if you do not add air to the suit. It depends on the undergarment. Of course, with a Black Ice, I wear very thin, light undergarments and they do not compress. They are actually extreme hiking undergarments that I paid about $25 a set for.

Interesting.... You can sink in a compressed neoprene drysuit with undergarments, wow, I am impressed.

You have answered your own question. Ideally we want to be neutral without any air in the wing, but your specific body structures is outside of the norm.

I figured as much. But Tobin has been so insistent that I'm doing something wrong that I thought I'd put it out there for others to comment on.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I respect Tobin. I really do, he's a smart guy. He's built a good business that sells very high quality products. I don't think I've ever met someone who has an issue with anything he sells, and people rave about his customer service. I also appreciate someone with unwavering conviction and the ability to speak their mind. However, as much as I respect Tobin, I have never once been about to submerge for a dive and thought "wait...what would Tobin do?"

 

[cool_hardware52]

So Tobin has made these claims both here and on CDF several times. Here was my response:



I will add to this that my Worthington 108s are neutral when empty, but my Faber 95s are 1.2 lbs negative when empty. My Worthington 85s are 1 lb negative when empty. Now granted, Faber FX133s and FX149s do get 1.45 and 2.35 lbs positive, respectively, when empty, but my guess is they trim out horribly in sidemount so using those cylinders isn't an option.

FWIW, I can sink in my compressed neoprene dry suit without any ballast. Getting a thicker dry suit or heavier undergarments will only overheat me. I'm almost overheated in my current exposure protection.

So what's the solution? Tobin must not know because he won't answer my question. But he's pretty insistent that my configuration is wrong because I shouldn't need my wing to offset the weight of my ballast.

Rob,

As an instructor do you consider it safe to advocate diving over weighted? I know I don't. This is a board with a readership that covers a broad range, new divers to far more experienced divers. I'm always mindful of who might be reading what I post.

Many accidents occur at the surface, often involving over weighted divers. Surely you know this.

That aside if you had a student make the same demands on you based on the non information you provided would consider them serious?

No buoyancy info on your suit

No Gas plan, or gas planning rules

No sac rate info

No profile info

No deco info

+ red herring references to Rebreathers, and various disclaimers about what you won't do.

I'm smart enough not to take the bait, but nice try.

Tobin