What did you just say?

[nimoh]

I was in the club pool one night swimming a few lengths. I had stopped for a rest at the shallow end, where a few people were doing try-dives. The instructor was explaining how to clear a mask and the woman he was explaining it to began asking how it was possible. The instructor demonstrated breathing in through the reg and out through the nose, however, she couldn't grasp how he was doing it. He explained again and she still didn't get it. She then said "If you breathe in through the mouth, you can't breathe out through the nose.'. The instructor asked why she thought this and she explained how one lung was connected to the mouth and the other was connected to the nose!

I can understand how people may have misconceptions about diving when learning to dive (e.g. oxygen tank vs air tank), but where on earth did she ever get this little tidbit of human anatomy?

 

[Insta-Gator]

I was in the club pool one night swimming a few lengths. I had stopped for a rest at the shallow end, where a few people were doing try-dives. The instructor was explaining how to clear a mask and the woman he was explaining it to began asking how it was possible. The instructor demonstrated breathing in through the reg and out through the nose, however, she couldn't grasp how he was doing it. He explained again and she still didn't get it. She then said "If you breathe in through the mouth, you can't breathe out through the nose.'. The instructor asked why she thought this and she explained how one lung was connected to the mouth and the other was connected to the nose!

This person to too stupid to be a diver. The instructor should have disqualified her immediately for her own safety.

 

[Robert Gillcash]

In the absence of any other signs, it isn't

Did you read my entire post? There was more said than just that....

If your kids are always screaming when they are playing, how will you know when they are really hurt? When they start screaming?
If the car in front of you always has its brake lights on, how will you know when it is really going to stop? When you hit it?

It about establishing good habits. As I said in my original post. Establish good habits.

 

[DaleC]

Is it a good habit to form behaviors on false information? The mask on the forehead is not a sign of panic. Teaching so just instills a false idea into the norm. This then creates a whole plethora of false behaviors by others based on those assumptions. The chief one being: People telling divers they appear to be panicking because they have a mask on their forehead.

this was not a part of early dive training. It would be interesting to note when exactly, it made its way into the modern lexicon.

 

[diverrex]

While I never put my mask on forehead I am in the camp that it is a silly idea to believe this is a sign of distress. I have never been on a boat where part of the briefing was "if you are in distress put your mask on your forehead so we know". Yes someone that surfaces, throws off equipment, thrashes around etc is probably in distress, not necessarily true about a diver with mask on forehead talking to their buddy.

 

[boulderjohn]

this was not a part of early dive training. It would be interesting to note when exactly, it made its way into the modern lexicon.

Here is my best guess. It comes from what I once called "the reduction funnel" of education.

I described it originally in relation to a theory of writing instruction adopted by the school district I had entered. When I was told the concepts I was supposed to be teaching, I thought it was totally absurd. Mystified, I pulled down the official curriculum, a many-paged and detailed volume on the concept. I still didn't agree with it, but it made a lot more sense than what I had been taught. It was also obvious what had happened. The entire concept was pretty complicated, and in teaching it to people some years back, only a portion of it was really taught. Then those people taught others a portion of what they had been taught, and those people taught a portion of what they had been taught. Eventually the whole complex idea had been reduced to a few short axioms, and one of them, the one most emphasized, was absolutely WRONG when put in the context of the entire curriculum. The "reduction funnel" is the instructional process by which a complete idea is reduced after various stages to an inaccurate fragment of the original.

Here is the amazing part. When I showed my new colleagues that the key idea they were teaching, the golden rule of that instructional process, was DEAD WRONG in the words of the actual full curriculum, they didn't care. They stayed with that stupid rule that had been handed down by word of mouth, and demanded that all people teach it, even after they were shown that it was clearly wrong.

In the case of the mask on the forehead issue, the complete idea is a picture of the various signs that are commonly found in the case of a panicked diver. Instructional materials list a bunch of things to look for. One potential sign of panic is rejection of equipment, usually the regulator. Sometimes it is the mask. Sometimes the rejected mask does not fall completely off but stays atop the forehead. Through the reduction process, at some point someone teaches that a mask on the forehead is one possible sign of panic. Someone hearing that reduces that to "a mask on the forehead is a sign of panic." Someone reduces that to "Putting a mask on the forehead make people think you are in a panic. That leads to "don't put a mask on your forehead--people will think you are in a panic." That is an easy warning to remember, and it is then repeated over and over again to people who do not question it.

Just as my colleagues refused to change their thinking on the mindless writing rule even when shown irrefutable proof that it was wrong, this mistake has become so thoroughly ingrained in scuba instruction that it may never go away.

 

[nimoh]

If I were on a boat and saw a diver surface and put their mask on their forehead, the first thing I would do is give them an OK sign, and if I didn't get one back, I would assume distress.

If I were on a boat and saw a diver surface, keeping their mask on their face, my actions would be the same.

To me, the whole mask on forehead thing is just a joke and is no indication of a distressed diver. I put it in the same category as "if you use split fins, you will die"

 

[diverrex]

Here is my best guess. It comes from what I once called "the reduction funnel" of education.

I described it originally in relation to a theory of writing instruction adopted by the school district I had entered. When I was told the concepts I was supposed to be teaching, I thought it was totally absurd. Mystified, I pulled down the official curriculum, a many-paged and detailed volume on the concept. I still didn't agree with it, but it made a lot more sense than what I had been taught. It was also obvious what had happened. The entire concept was pretty complicated, and in teaching it to people some years back, only a portion of it was really taught. Then those people taught others a portion of what they had been taught, and those people taught a portion of what they had been taught. Eventually the whole complex idea had been reduced to a few short axioms, and one of them, the one most emphasized, was absolutely WRONG when put in the context of the entire curriculum. The "reduction funnel" is the instructional process by which a complete idea is reduced after various stages to an inaccurate fragment of the original.

Here is the amazing part. When I showed my new colleagues that the key idea they were teaching, the golden rule of that instructional process, was DEAD WRONG in the words of the actual full curriculum, they didn't care. They stayed with that stupid rule that had been handed down by word of mouth, and demanded that all people teach it, even after they were shown that it was clearly wrong.

In the case of the mask on the forehead issue, the complete idea is a picture of the various signs that are commonly found in the case of a panicked diver. Instructional materials list a bunch of things to look for. One potential sign of panic is rejection of equipment, usually the regulator. Sometimes it is the mask. Sometimes the rejected mask does not fall completely off but stays atop the forehead. Through the reduction process, at some point someone teaches that a mask on the forehead is one possible sign of panic. Someone hearing that reduces that to "a mask on the forehead is a sign of panic." Someone reduces that to "Putting a mask on the forehead make people think you are in a panic. That leads to "don't put a mask on your forehead--people will think you are in a panic." That is an easy warning to remember, and it is then repeated over and over again to people who do not question it.

Just as my colleagues refused to change their thinking on the mindless writing rule even when shown irrefutable proof that it was wrong, this mistake has become so thoroughly ingrained in scuba instruction that it may never go away.

In a similar way would be "be back on the boat with 500 psi". Then you hear someone blew off their safety stop because they were down to 500 psi. The rule makes sense within the context of a bunch of other good practices but should not supersede those other practices, such as a slow ascent and safety stop.

 

[Ste Wart]

Mask on Forehead = Beer fine

This is the real reason instructors perpetuate the myth. Beer is better than the truth.

 

[boulderjohn]

In a similar way would be "be back on the boat with 500 psi". Then you here someone blew off their safety stop because they were down to 500 psi. The rule makes sense within the context of a bunch of other good practices but should not supersede those other practices, such as a slow ascent and safety stop.

You are right, but I put some blame on dive operators (and I have heard this) who emphasize this requirement to the point of saying that if you don't have 500 PSI when you get back on the boat, you will not be allowed to do the second dive. That puts a lot of pressure on a diver to blow off the safety stop and ascent too quickly.