What constitutes a dive?

[Kingpatzer]

It's interesting that this is even a problem/concern as the minimum requirements for most scuba related matters are low enough that by the time you are ready for more training you should already have more than enough legitimate dives in the first place.

The very phrasing of "legitimate dives" shows the sort of letter of the law focus that makes for a great debate. I'll be willing to bet, for example, that the buoyancy skills of a diver who dives for 15 minutes at a time in a 15 foot lake practicing good buoyancy will be far superior to the skills of a the warm weather diver who has never dove shallower than 60' and never practices their skills after any arbitrary number of submersions. But by the letter of the law, only one of them will be able to log a "legitimate" dive.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

If I have a dive less than 20 mins its because I aborted for some reason. Most recently it took five minutes to conclude that a leaking dry suit under ice is not fun. I learn more from a dive that goes wrong than I learn in 20 routine tropical dives. So yes, I think I should log those. Some agency doesn't want to train me cause I didn't spend 20 mins freezing my arm off in a leaking dry suit well that says something about their standards.

I do conversely support a minimum amount of time underwater for Open Water students to qualify, but at some point it is about what you did in those hours you have logged under water. Sitting on a 6m platform watching the second hand tick down gives zero experience.

 

[BrianKon]

20 feet for 20 minutes counts as a dive. You must exit the water and re-enter the water to log an additional dive.

for example: to get the required number of dives to certify as a Divemaster, you could in essence make 3 dives in 70 minutes from a boat or shore, you cound do that as many times as your dive computer or RDP tables allow. However, remember the PADI standard is no more than three traing dives per day.

you can count pool sessions for confined water dives.

Brian

 

[seaducer]

For me it is about intent and experience as opposed to depth and time. I don't consider the bounce dives that people tend to do to boost logged dives to qualify for DM or instructor training as dives. You know, sit on a platform at 20 feet for 20 minutes watching their timer. That is not diving its cheating.

I can't really define what I consider a "dive", but I know it when it happens.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I could be wrong but it seems like the OP was asking about standards, not necessarily what individual diver's opinions are about what constitutes a dive. My understanding is that PADI has standards for what constitutes a dive that can legitimately be applied to the minimum required for divemaster/instructor. I believe the minimum numbers are 60/100? Recently the requirements for DM were changed to a min of 30 to start DM with 60 min to complete? And what constitutes a dive is also defined somewhere in the standards, at least as it applies to those certs. Beyond satisfying course requirements, I agree it's subjective. But it does make me wonder why people bother to put a number to their dives, if nobody agrees what that means. If there is an instructor/course director looking at this thread I'd be interested to see the comments.

Yup ... when quoting "standards", none of the agencies are trying to provide a definition for what constitutes a "legitimate" dive except as they apply to classes. PADI, NAUI and other agencies establish minimum standards for classes to assure that the student gets adequate in-water time. The definitions in the standards manuals do not apply to dives outside of the classroom.

For real-world (non-class) diving, a dive is what you define it to be.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree with those who say to count what you want, but for those who are looking for agency-specific standards, I can give you PADI's. What follows is quoted directly out of the 2010 handbook

Definition of a logged dive (page 16):

Logged Dives
To credit as a logged dive for course requirements, the dive
takes place in open water and specifi c information about the
dive (i.e. date, time, location, depth, profile, etc.) is recorded.
Training dives for PADI courses (in open water or a controlled
environment) qualify as logged dives.

PADI has specific requirements for the dives conducted during their courses (page 18):

2. Minimum depth is 5 metres/15 feet.
...
6. During open water dives, have divers spend the majority
of time at 5 metres/15 feet or greater, and breathe at least
1400 litres or 50 cubic feet of compressed gas or remain
submerged for at least 20 minutes.

 

[fire_diver]

20 feet for 20 minutes counts as a dive. You must exit the water and re-enter the water to log an additional dive.

for example: to get the required number of dives to certify as a Divemaster, you could in essence make 3 dives in 70 minutes from a boat or shore, you cound do that as many times as your dive computer or RDP tables allow. However, remember the PADI standard is no more than three traing dives per day.

you can count pool sessions for confined water dives.

Brian

So why can't 19 feet for 21 minutes be a dive?
Why can't 21 feet for 19 minutes be a dive?
Why do I have to exit the water for the next dive to start? If I have enough gas in my tank, Why can't I float around the surface with my buds for 30 minutes then drop back down to start another dive? What is so magical about stepping out of the water?

Arbitrary rules have no meaning to me without substance.

 

[TMHeimer]

Outside of a class, what counts as a dive is what you define it to be. For those classes that require a set of "minimum" dives in order to begin or complete, I think the standard is typically a minimum of 20 minutes at 20 feet or greater.

Personally I don't count pool dives. Nor do I count things like OW checkout dives, or Rescue scenarios. Yesterday I was doing a drysuit class, and I didn't count that one, since it had to be aborted at about 18 minutes due to an equipment malfunction.

For purposes of logging your dives, it's really up to you to define what constitutes a "dive" ... it's your record, after all ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yeah, my exact response as well. I don't count pool dives. However, I will count a 5 minute dive that's aborted, and Rescue scenarios. Doesn't matter- count what you want. "Regulations" only apply when you need logged dives to do a course. Then you find out from the agency, or better yet from the Instructor as to what counts as a dive.

 

[The Chairman]

These are the kind of dives that are [-]can be[/-] meaningless.

I fixed this for you.

They were in an amazing place but chose to work on numbers rather than the experience.

Playing the devils advocate, however if they were working on skills such as buoyancy, DM required skills, etc. I can see the value for them and they of course still count.

They actually bragged about trying to fall asleep for 20 minutes at a time. Perhaps they were working on the Underwater Snooze Specialty.

Some people are turned on by numbers. They are proud of their x number of dives just as many are proud of their x number of posts. It's often said that scuba is not a competition, but we are incredibly persistent at making it so. I really don't care how many dives you tell me that you have. I do care how you respond underwater, especially if you're my buddy.

FWIW, NASE does not require you to log a certain number of dives for OW. Instead they require 100 minutes. It works out a little better as a minimum if the OW dives are kept to 15 or 20 minutes, but don't forget: it's only a minimum. NASE also requires competency rather than simple skills mastery. It's a slightly different emphasis, and it seems that most instructors here on ScubaBoard already use that method. I'm just glad to see it as an agency standard rather than dependent on individual instructors.

 

[SoccerJeni]

This is sort of a tangent off of the original post, but I had to look up the requirments for PADI DM since people were talking about some trying to just get enough for the requirements. It's only 50 dives and if someone is doing multiple short nothing dives to just get up to 50....um wow. 50 doesn't sound like much in the first place....