Whaling: Right or Wrong?

[cdiver2]

One could look at this from the following perspective. Gas guzzling cars, polluting industries and other factors in America (and other industrialized countries) are a major factor contributing to global warming according to many experts. Global warming is considered a serious threat to the survival of minke whales due to reductions in krill caused by the breakup of the ice sheets. Therefore the US is a major contributor to the threats against the minke whale, perhaps killing far more than Japan's take through direct hunting.

Hmmm. Which is worse? Direct or indirect killing? I think to the whale population it may make no difference (although starving to death may involve much more pain and suffering than being harpooned).

Just something to think about.

You missed the point Dr. Japan is into the heavy industry here in the US and also producing gas guzzling cars for the US market, (lots of $ going to Japan ). To do this and then point the finger at the US and use it as an excuse to continue whaling would make them what? Hypocrites comes to mind.

 

[gangrel441]

Japan beats on Americans for gas guzzlers while killing the few remaining whales we have left.

Clearly slanted and biased. If you don't understand why, you need to review the facts.

 

[Kim]

1/I did not say Japan bulled the US.

I'm sorry - maybe I misunderstood your first post. Maybe your use of the large BULLYING lead me to the wrong conclusion. I thought you were saying that Japan bullied the US.

Anyway. I think I can see what you are actually saying now. I'd be interested though to know if you have any facts to back your claims that Japanese factories in the US produce high levels of pollution. In Japan they are run very fuel efficiently - are they run differently in the States? I'd be very surprised if they were - they aren't in Europe for instance. I'm also quite surprised that you think that it's Japanese producers making the gas guzzling cars. Really? When they have made their main reputation for smaller more fuel efficient cars in the rest of the world. I suppose they probably sell more of their larger cars in the States than anywhere else but that would probably be due to the demands of their American customers who won't buy anything else. Cylinder size to cylinder size though I think you'll find that Japanese cars are the most efficient on the planet - which means they burn less fuel - which creates less pollution. Of course now that Americans are being faced with the real world rise in fuel prices, that market might also start to change soon as well. Logic dictates that it should, after all when the price of filling your tank starts to seriously eat into the family budget something has to give. Still - you are an ex-pat Englishman living in the States just as I am one living in Japan. We probably both know and understand our local areas better than each other. The only reason I started to bring criticizm of the States into this thread was to show what it's like and to bring a bit of balance into another anti-Japanese debate. Look at the thread title and it should be clear where this started. No-one has clean hands on these issues - no-one. That's the simple truth and leads me to believe that no-one should be slinging the rocks around that I mentioned in my first post. (post 80) Still - if that's what people insist on doing then I'm afraid I have to sling them right back.

 

[gangrel441]

You missed the point Dr. Japan is into the heavy industry here in the US and also producing gas guzzling cars for the US market, (lots of $ going to Japan ). To do this and then point the finger at the US and use it as an excuse to continue whaling would make them what? Hypocrites comes to mind.

Toyotas are some of the most fuel efficient cars on the roads in the U.S. Sure, they aren't the 550 CC models they drive in Kyoto, but there is no market for those in the states because of the insatiable need of Americans for power and luxury in their cars. Still, Toyota and Honda produce cars in this market which are in demand AND much easier on the environment, plus last for over 100k miles with low maintenance, thus cutting the disposal waste. How is that contributing to the problem?

 

[okamiotoko2004]

99.9% of all things that have lived on Earth are now extinct. There have been 3 mass extinctions on Earth. Humans were not present for any of them.
Also there is not a nation on this Earth that is not in some way contributing to global warming. Using the internet uses electricity and since most electricity worldwide is generated through the use of carbon based fuels is contributing to glabal warming. No country is innocent. So unless we all want to go back to the stonage some species somehwere is going to go extinct and the Earth will continue to change whether we are here or not.

 

[drbill]

You missed the point Dr. Japan is into the heavy industry here in the US and also producing gas guzzling cars for the US market, (lots of $ going to Japan ). To do this and then point the finger at the US and use it as an excuse to continue whaling would make them what? Hypocrites comes to mind.

Yes, CDiver2... I missed your point! And just what was it? As Spock and Dr. Bill would say, I fail to see the logic.

After watching all the GM and Ford cars the rest of my family has purchased fall apart and turn into metal scrap after a few years, I'm quite pleased with the Toyota truck that lasted 20+ years and my Tercel which has lasted 18+ years and is still going strong. My total repair outlay over that time period? About $500, mostly for a transmission that developed a leaky hydraulic cylinder.

Of course there are hypocrites in every country... Japan and the USA being no exception.

So much for Peace on Earth, Good Will towards Men (I direct my good will mainly at the ladies... less testosterone to deal with).

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

Are there any arguments FOR whaling here other than:

A) there are enough around to keep killing them

and

B) since other countries are/have been destructive, its ok for Japan to do the same

Neither of these positions are very cogent arguments for the practice of whaling even if they are true. Seems like a sophomoric mentality if you ask me.

How about:

Why Whaling?

There are many sound arguments for sustainable whaling. Here are some of them:

• Eating whale meat is far more environmentally-friendly than eating beef, lamb or pork. Harvesting nature's surplus means that biodiversity and habitat does not have to be destroyed and turned into agricultural land.
• Whaling does not destroy the environment and is very energy efficient – producing beef requires much more energy than producing whale meat.
• As free-range animals, whales are spared the prolonged suffering of factory-farm livestock.
• Harpoon-cannons with explosive penthrite grenades ensure efficient and humane hunting methods.
• The products from the hunt are used for human consumption, including meat, fins, blubber, etc. Whale meat is rich in protein (23.5%), lean and tasty. Whale products are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, selenium, vitamin E etc. These are beneficial to human health, helping prevent diabetes and cardiovascular diseases.
• Sustainable whaling means putting into practice the principles of conservation and sustainable use as embodied by the world community in Agenda 21.
• Whaling provides a livelihood in many coastal communities around the world both for subsistence and for trade.
• It makes no sense at all to refrain from sustainably utilising the traditional renewable resources of one’s community, and to rely on the perhaps unsafe meat imports from the industrialised large scale agricultural countries.

Source: High North Alliance

If you didn't read the whole thread, but it's been posted already.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Announcement
This thread has been cleaned up and is being returned to the Marine Life & Ecosystems Forum. Politicals necessarily plays a part in discussing issues relating to conservation and is OK in this forum in as much as it is germane to the topic.

However: Racial and/or Nationality discussions are never OK per the TOS.

While discussing Japanese whaling involves mentioning the Japanese, no racial or national judgments are to be made. It is ok to say "The Japanese are whaling again" since that is a statment of fact. Generalizations and value statements are not.

 

[Mr.X]

I thank the folks at Scubaboard for returning this thread and for spending an inordinate amount of their time cleaning up this heated thread.

The latest news has Greenpeace and Sea Sheperd's Farley Mowat vessel locating the harpoon boats and disrupting the hunt. There is high drama involved.

http://weblog.greenpeace.org/oceandefenders/

http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/whales.html

 

[drbill]

99.9% of all things that have lived on Earth are now extinct. There have been 3 mass extinctions on Earth. Humans were not present for any of them.
Also there is not a nation on this Earth that is not in some way contributing to global warming. Using the internet uses electricity and since most electricity worldwide is generated through the use of carbon based fuels is contributing to glabal warming. No country is innocent. So unless we all want to go back to the stonage [sic] some species somehwere is going to go extinct and the Earth will continue to change whether we are here or not.

Very true! Homo sapiens may be the one.