West Marine Scuba Shops-Within-Stores - What to you think?

[Rich Keller]

No Jersey Boy . . .if that particular Local Dive Shop has the market & service expertise to deal in quality volume with College & University Marine Biology Departments; Film & TV Industry; County/State Gov't Fire & Police; Commercial Divers --all in San Pedro/Long Beach, two of the busiest commercial ports in the US and pass discount economics to ordinary Scuba Divers like me, then they get my business.

Well I would have to agree with you on one point, you are an ordinary diver, but once you gain some experience you will start to learn more about how things work. As for commercial divers, they do their own service, they need to be able to fix any problem with their equipment on the spot when they are on a job. If they have to leave a job to get something fixed at your shop they will not have a job to return to after the problem is fixed. All of the other groups you mention have large budgets and it costs them nothing personally to be lazy.

 

[rick00001967]

Do you really expect them to then service that Reg you bought online instead -under warranty??? C'mon. . .

my comments are made as general statements and not directed at you so no offense is intended......but "yes", if the warranty terms dictate that the lds is authorized to do so. i would not expect to be at the top of the list but besides that i would expect the same service as anyone else. in fact the lds may be "required" to to do it if they were the only one in town. or risk loosing their dealership.
my "real job" puts me in this position quite often. customers purchase products we sell from other suppliers. then when it breaks down they call me. i'm required under the conditions of my companies dealership agreement to provide service to these customers whether i like it or not, and i do. that is what comes with being a dealer for certain companies.
as far as reg service goes, i may be in a special situation, but when i consider the cost of gear and service where i live, it is actually cheaper (and easier) for me to purchase regs elsewhere, use them for a couple of years, sell them, and buy new again. i don't necessarily blame the lds for this (i stated some other reasons above) but it is a sad reality. the only regs i bought from my shop are the ones i was required to use during training as they are the brand we sell the most. as it turns out, we sell them for 3 times what they sell for across the border. now i'm sorry but something has to be very wrong for this to ever happen

---------- Post added December 28th, 2014 at 01:22 PM ----------

Sadly, I'd expect a great many short-sighted LDS's to turn a diver - and their money - away if they came in for service with regs bought elsewhere.

our lds will......they just charge double. which in turn drives more customers away.

as i saw someone on the boards state some time ago in a discussion like this.......why not greet them as a potential new customer and try providing top notch service for them instead. at least you will get the service business. and maybe, if your service is better than most, they might return to spend money anther time. isn't that better than telling them to leave your store and not come back because they bought some gear somewhere else ?

 

[Kevrumbo]

Well I would have to agree with you on one point, you are an ordinary diver, but once you gain some experience you will start to learn more about how things work. As for commercial divers, they do their own service, they need to be able to fix any problem with their equipment on the spot when they are on a job. If they have to leave a job to get something fixed at your shop they will not have a job to return to after the problem is fixed. All of the other groups you mention have large budgets and it costs them nothing personally to be lazy.

Really now . . .for example, you claim to also speak for the experience of all the private yacht/boat cleaners who at least need convenient daily air fills while on downtime maintenance overhaul on their hookah-compressor? My aren't we presumptuous --you gotta USB dongle fill-whip online solution for that too???

---------- Post added December 28th, 2014 at 10:29 AM ----------

my comments are made as general statements and not directed at you so no offense is intended......but "yes", if the warranty terms dictate that the lds is authorized to do so. i would not expect to be at the top of the list but besides that i would expect the same service as anyone else. in fact the lds may be "required" to to do it if they were the only one in town. or risk loosing their dealership.
my "real job" puts me in this position quite often. customers purchase products we sell from other suppliers. then when it breaks down they call me. i'm required under the conditions of my companies dealership agreement to provide service to these customers whether i like it or not, and i do. that is what comes with being a dealer for certain companies.
as far as reg service goes, i may be in a special situation, but when i consider the cost of gear and service where i live, it is actually cheaper (and easier) for me to purchase regs elsewhere, use them for a couple of years, sell them, and buy new again. i don't necessarily blame the lds for this (i stated some other reasons above) but it is a sad reality. the only regs i bought from my shop are the ones i was required to use during training as they are the brand we sell the most. as it turns out, we sell them for 3 times what they sell for across the border. now i'm sorry but something has to be very wrong for this to ever happen

---------- Post added December 28th, 2014 at 01:22 PM ----------



our lds will......they just charge double. which in turn drives more customers away.

as i saw someone on the boards state some time ago in a discussion like this.......why not greet them as a potential new customer and try providing top notch service for them instead. at least you will get the service business. and maybe, if your service is better than most, they might return to spend money anther time. isn't that better than telling them to leave your store and not come back because they bought some gear somewhere else ?

You're right . . .you will not be at the top of the list for a service item --right behind all the working dive professionals and loyal sport diving customers.

Y'all get what Ya pay for. . .

 

[Rich Keller]

Really now . . .for example, you claim to also speak for the experience of all the private yacht/boat cleaners who at least need convenient daily air fills while on downtime maintenance overhaul on their hookah-compressor? My aren't we presumptuous --you gotta USB dongle fill-whip online solution fot that too???

I do speak from experience for the commercial divers. Boat cleaners are not commercial divers. As I pointed out earlier there are many other places to get your tanks filled other then the LDS if needed. PHMSA - Cylinders - Authorized DOT Cylinder Retesters: Domestic

 

[Kevrumbo]

I do speak from experience for the commercial divers. Boat cleaners are not commercial divers. As I pointed out earlier there are many other places to get your tanks filled other then the LDS if needed. PHMSA - Cylinders - Authorized DOT Cylinder Retesters: Domestic

Boat Cleaners here in SoCal -a lot of 'em- ARE COMMERCIAL DIVERS BETWEEN JOBS OR DOING SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME WORK. All here in the two busiest commercial ports in the United States, and gateway to the best temperate water/kelp forest diving in the world. (You like putting more of your foot-in-mouth Rich?)

Also look on your linked list above for California Hydro Facility ID#D667 Pacific Wilderness San Pedro --a full service Local Dive Shop that other dive shops here in Los Angeles send their Hydros & Repairs to for quick/rush turn-around. . .

 

[Rich Keller]

Boat Cleaners here in SoCal -a lot of 'em- ARE COMMERCIAL DIVERS BETWEEN JOBS OR DOING SUPPLEMENTAL INCOME WORK. All here in the two busiest commercial ports in the United States, and gateway to the best temperate water/kelp forest diving in the world. (You like putting more of your foot-in-mouth Rich?)

Also look on your linked list above for California Hydro Facility ID#D667 Pacific Wilderness San Pedro --a full service Local Dive Shop that other dive shops here in Los Angeles send their Hydros & Repairs to for quick/rush turn-around. . .

Okay so some commercial divers clean boats, that does not make all boat cleaners commercial divers. Commercial divers still repair all of their own personal equipment along with most problems that occur to the compressors they use so I do not see your point. Your shop may do hydros but I can still get tanks filled at thousands of other places that are not a LDS, so again I do not see your point. My point is that the LDS is not needed if you know what you are doing and have access to a computer. That does not mean I am against the LDS, just that diving can easily be done without them and that will have an effect on the industry going forward. The smart LDS operator is changing with the times and the rest will eventually go the way of the dinosaurs. But you stick with the dinosaurs and in 65 million years if people still need oil you may become relevant.

 

[RJP]

I don't think anyone WANTS an LDS to go out of business. Most people want an LDS to run their store in a way that allows their business to flourish. Doing so benefits the shop owner and the diver alike.

And that doesn't mean that they need to cut prices. They simply need to run their business in a way that causes people to WANT to spend their money there vs elsewhere. Marketing is all about getting people to willingly make irrational financial decisions... with a smile on their face.

Think about it. Why do people willingly buy a beer in a bar...

When they can get the same beer for 66 cents right across the street?

Buying a beer in a bar makes no rational sense whatsoever. Yet plenty of people who have no issue doing so will go way out of their way to buy a bolt-snap online for $4.00 because they can't stand the fact that their LDS is ripping them off by charging $5.00 for the same thing.

 

[redacted]

I don't think anyone WANTS an LDS to go out of business. Most people want an LDS to run their store in a way that allows their business to flourish. Doing so benefits the shop owner and the diver alike.

And that doesn't mean that they need to cut prices. They simply need to run their business in a way that causes people to WANT to spend their money there vs elsewhere. Marketing is all about getting people to willingly make irrational financial decisions... with a smile on their face.

Think about it. Why do people willingly buy a beer in a bar...line for $4.00 because they can't stand the fact that their LDS is ripping them off by charging $5.00 for the same thing.

One difference is the bar provides an enjoyable atmosphere with pleasant conversation while you usually have to stand in the LDS while you listen to them bitching about other scuba retailers.

 

[RJP]

One difference is the bar provides an enjoyable atmosphere with pleasant conversation while you usually have to stand in the LDS while you listen to them bitching about other scuba retailers.

Those are "irrational" criteria when choosing where to purchase beer, no? (I don't mean "crazy" irrational but simply "emotional/non-rational" irrational.)

I'm not saying they aren't potentially valid reasons for paying more for a beer in a bar vs a liquor store, but you've hit the nail on the head. Forget the "pleasant atmosphere" specifically, as we've all been in plenty of bars that lacked enjoyable atmosphere and/or pleasant conversation...

Certainly it's easy to imagine one would't want to frequent any establishment that provided an "unpleasant" atmosphere... but fixing that's not enough. I wouldn't pay more for ANYTHING simply based on the experience NOT being unpleasant.

Instead use "enjoyable atmosphere and pleasant conversation" simply as one example of the intangible benefits that people are willing to factor into how much they will pay for an item in one setting versus another.

What other intangible benefits can an LDS provide to customers to warrant paying a higher price?

 

[tomfcrist]

I am sure I have posted this before, but here it goes again....

LDS's absolutely CAN compete with online retailers....They just don't want to. Most LDS owners are the same old hags that owned the LDS in the 90's, when the internet sales thing was miniscule....They could get away with charging anything they thought up. Then comes the online retailer, who buys in bulk(or drop ships) and gets their merchandise a little cheaper than the LDS does. They sell expecting a 20% return on investment(really low markup) because they CAN....They have no real overhead, and they have high volume sales numbers due to their low prices.

How does an LDS compete? By expanding their business model to include an online storefront....and advertise it. They will be able to extend their great prices that they offer online to their brick and mortar store. They will also be able to have REAL INVENTORY in their B&M store. I don't know about you, but if I want a Light in Motion Sola 2000 and I drop by the LDS to see what they have...If they don't have it, I will order it online and pay less vice waiting 2 weeks for them to order it and then mark it up 150%.

LDS's in general(not all of them), need to remove their heads from their asses and get with the times.

Having a storefront that doesn't look like a crackhouse would be helpful too.

RJP, I think the answer to your BAR vs Store analogy is......boobies.