Well I think that I am Finally getting a clue but I need a little bit of Advice

[Jambi]

I will use my dive tables just to make sure that I know that I am using my computer correctly and I will keep a log for my dive tables and my computer. This way I think I have everything covered. IntruderDiver

He is doing the right thing by applying both sides... And that is what is important----

AGREED! That IS, in the end, really the whole point. To use what equipment and tools that you want and still be safe.

Not heated just want the new divers to be able to read and understand both sides---If you see a fallacy in my writing you should address it...As you know I will!

Like I said at the end of my first post. Thankfully people are there to let me and others know if i'm off.

By the way having a little Doppler attached to you would be cool...If I say so myself.

Sounds like it's time to go into business


Happy Diving,
Jambi

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wasnt really talking to you but --Fine --- Your bottom timer cost $120.00 how much did you Depth gauge cost--- Assuming that it is seperate...

The bottom timer nmeasures depth and time.

Things do fail! I know that from expierence--- Mine failed at 250fsw with more than an hour of deco time above my head! By the way that was I dive I did on tables my primay depth gauge failed! My computer back up is what saved me a trip to the Chamber

If my bottom timer fails I use my buddies for the remainder of the dive.

I do wear a $30 watch that I use to make timing stops easier. That's enough money spent just to know how deep I am for how long.

 

[JPBECK]

If your Bottom timer/ Depth gauge fails you use your buddy's Gauges?--- Do you think that's wise? Wow I would abort the dive and make a safe accent--- Call me Crazy!

 

[JPBECK]

What's the next thing you'll say you use your small bubbles to gauge your acsent rate? We are trying to teach good habits not things that can get a diver hurt!

 

[MikeFerrara]

If your Bottom timer/ Depth fails you use your buddies timer--- Do you think that's wise? Wow I would abort the dive and make a safe accent--- Call me Crazy!

Sure I would abort the dive but my ascent might involve 1/4 mile swim out of a cave and/or 90 minutes of decompression.

If you've paid attention to your profile up until the time when it fails it isn't a big deal. 2 depth measurement devices is plenty for a team of two people.

It's only a big deal if you have relied on your computer to monitor your decompression status so that once it dies you're lost and all you can do is run for home and stay out of the water for a day.

 

[MikeFerrara]

What's the next thing you'll say you use your small bubbles to gauge your acsent rate? We are trying to teach good habits not things that can get a diver hurt!

Certainly not. I use visual references combined with a depth gauge and timer. My initial ascent is 1 ft every 2 seconds. Ascent speed from there depends on the profile but the fastest ascent I use above 20 ft is 5 - 6 ft/minute.

If my depth gauge is gone my buddy is my depth gauge. No biggie.

How do you do it...flashing lights on your computer? By the time a cmputers alarm goes off you're going way too fast.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

If I end up purchasing a dive computer before we go down to mexico I think I am going to use two different methods. I will use my dive tables just to make sure that I know that I am using my computer correctly and I will keep a log for my dive tables and my computer. This way I think I have everything covered.

Welcome to the board. Hope you enjoy diving.

By now you may realize that further discussion on this thread is largely pointless.

There are two schools of thought. They tend to disagree at a rather fundamental level. Neither is likely to convince the other of any stronger argument. Feel free to select either one and defend it vigorously.

Just remember two things.

Don't confuse "want" with "need". You don't need a computer. Whatever you're spending for two of them, you're spending because you 'want' them, not because you 'need' them. You need a regulator to dive, but not a computer.

Computers will likely give you longer bottom times on each individual dive. On diving vacations, however, you often dive multiple times per day. Computers will calculate this total residual nitrogen exposure also, but - as someone else mentioned earlier - they do so with a precision (based on a model) that allows you to press right up against the NDL limits. Tables, with their square profiles, offer a built in conservatism. You can press either one, to be sure. But on any given day of, say, 4 dives, tables v. computers, you'll likely find a longer total exposure time with computers (because they allow for longer individual dives).

Just be careful...when you dive multiple dives per day for three or four days in a row, you can suffer a DCS hit while technically staying within NDL limits (using either). But, again, the tables offer some built-in conservatism that the computer, more precise in its calcs, does not.

IMHO. YMMV. Have fun on your vacation.

Doc

 

[JPBECK]

whats YMMV?

 

[JeffG]

whats YMMV?

Your Mileage may vary

 

[Rick Murchison]

Let's see if (a rather big if in this case) I can bring a little clarity to the discussion....
The disparity in points of view here largely center around a fallacy - that fallacy is that computers will give you more bottom time. Those who are in the "no computer" school know that ain't so, because they custom cut tables (even those who claim they don't use tables or computers actually have used them - and their understanding of them - to come up with the "tables" they use in their head). Most of the "no computer" folk I know do use computers, but the computers are used topside, running some variant of VPM or RGBM to come up with the profile for the dive - and that profile will allow more bottom time and less decompression than most any recreational dive computer. The profiles are disciplined and rigid. Flexibility on such dives is in having a range of disciplined and rigid plans "in your back pocket." So, if I can get more bottom time safely by using custom tables, and my dive profile would drive a dive computer bonkers - or, on the other end of the scale, if I'm going to dive within known safe parameters all the time, I have reduced the dive computer to being either a nuisance, or a surfeit. Either way, why in the world would I carry an expensive nuisance or useless instrument?
But----
For most recreational divers "the tables" consist of the tables they got along with their open water class, and they were never taught how to use those tables for multi-level diving. Nor do they care to take the time to learn how. And despite the wailing and moaning I hear already from the corner, I see no reason in the world why the average underwater sightseer should have to be a tables guru when there are tools readily available (dive computers) that make it so easy to stay safe. Just don't "ride the zero." No agency or recreational dive computer manufacturer advocates anything more agressive than 5 minutes remaining, and if one "rides the 5" it really is hard to press the limits - and the diver will still be able to get a whole lot more dive time using a computer than the basic square table. Unless, of course, a computer fails. But so long as a diver is willing to stick to the "abort/24 hours off" rule in return for not having to mess with the tables, shouldn't he have that option? I think so.
Personally I'd rather see the recreational diver devote time and energy into pursuing excellent buoyancy and trim, and I'd rather see them using their topside time poring over fish ID and behavior and marine biology and ecology books than the intricacies of tables use. The devotion to learning more about the underwater world will naturally lead to a desire to stay longer, look in more places... and back to the tables intricacies those of us who use 'em are so fond of.
As for me, I use computers on most "recreational" dives, but cut custom tables on most "technical" dives. I can switch from computer to tables at any time, because I run tables behind the computer. My preference.
Rick