Weighting,Stupid Question !!!!

[NOVIZWHIZ]

"Please use this forum for its intended purpose. That's not to say that your responses are invalid or unappreciated ... only that this isn't the place for the type of responses you're posting."

You gotta be kidding? I'm now being told to chillout, because I question a practice that is unsafe in my opinion?...c'mon guys...and about my posts - I've not been impolite or irrational, no flaming, name calling...just having a discussion...just because it goes against the opinions of DIR I'm being told to stop? OKay, sorry, I thought this was a place where you can intelligently express opinons and discuss and disagree on a semi-professional level....guess not, huh? Best bet is for me to just shut up right here and now.

 

[kalvyn]

...Best bet is for me to just shut up right here and now.

Yeah, pretty much.

This is the DIR forum. The DIR answer for weight belt placement is over the strap diving wet and under the strap diving dry. You are welcome to disagree with that, but arguing about it ad nauseum in this particular forum is counter-productive (as you hopefully have noticed by now).

Just to prove that I don't blindly follow the party line... when I dove in Bonaire and Puerto Vallarta, I still wore my weight belt under my crotch strap even though I was diving a 3 mil wetsuit. It was just the way I'm used to putting my stuff on when I'm getting ready to dive.

Jimmie

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

"Please use this forum for its intended purpose. That's not to say that your responses are invalid or unappreciated ... only that this isn't the place for the type of responses you're posting."

You gotta be kidding? I'm now being told to chillout, because I question a practice that is unsafe in my opinion?...c'mon guys...and about my posts - I've not been impolite or irrational, no flaming, name calling...just having a discussion...just because it goes against the opinions of DIR I'm being told to stop? OKay, sorry, I thought this was a place where you can intelligently express opinons and discuss and disagree on a semi-professional level....guess not, huh? Best bet is for me to just shut up right here and now.

No, I'm not kidding.

I've been polite too. I answered your original question. That didn't satisfy. After a while, it looks to me (as a moderator) that you're trying to stir up a controversy. I'd really prefer that you didn't.

You've repeatedly implied ... or outright stated ... that a DIR practice is (in your opinion) unsafe. You are welcome to your opinion. Stating it as such in this forum is, in my opinion, inflammatory. It is also clear, based on the context of your comments, that you lack sufficient knowledge of the DIR system to make that statement in an informed manner, however much experience you may have with other methods of diving.

I've (not impolitely) pointed out to you the rules that were established for participation in this forum. Observation of those rules isn't optional.

If you wish to continue the conversation, please take it to Basic Discussions, Hogarthian, or any number of other forums where the expression of such opinions are not counter to the purpose of the forum. Certainly you will find others who agree with you, and the debate may prove lively. Those who use this forum do so because they wish to learn more about the DIR system, not because they wish to hear someone who knows little about DIR label it "unsafe".

Thank you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[gr8white]

Then the obvious question I have is why are you posting your responses in this forum?



Please use this forum for its intended purpose. That's not to say that your responses are invalid or unappreciated ... only that this isn't the place for the type of responses you're posting.

Sorry, Bob, couldn't disagree with you more. This is exactly the type of forum this discussion belongs in.
This guy never talked about going buddyless...why state that he did. But the comment was brought up by Soggy that there NEVER is situation where ditching weights is appropriate. That proper planning negates this. That is just wrong. S$^T happens. The whole DIR concept is based on this. Plan for contingencies. Redundant systems. But yet this whole argument ignores that fact that a buddy separation can occur. Tell me that you are a DIR diver who has never drifted, separated, lost, or whatever, "your buddies", then I will call you a liar...in a nice sort of way. And, as I have posted in this thread before, the situation in which you will lose contact with your team will very likely be an emergency situation. Fine, depend on the team. But plan on your team not being there....or you not being with your team. That is a higher probability than an regulator failure or whatever other contigency you have trained over an over for. Consider this....perhaps there just is something new to learn. Are you saying that no DIR diver has ever gone into rough surf, bad viz, swift current, lost a buddy, been lost by a buddy, ...give me a break. If you only dove SWEET water, you'd all be pussies and I know that is not the case, so don't say you don't go into questionable water. Unless you dive into a placid lake, there are situations that need to be dealt with. Quit expousing theory and talk reality. Again...S**T happens and this guy has discussed a situation that could happen to any of you. Why cram him into a non-DIR forum when he came to you to ask a question. He has done it reasonably, responsibly and with respect. You have not given him the same. Time to self relfect and make this a better forum. If you look in this forum there are a lot of non-DIR divers looking to see if this is the place for them to belong. It doesn't look too friendly to me. Time for a change.

 

[MonkSeal]

Sorry, Bob, couldn't disagree with you more. This is exactly the type of forum this discussion belongs in.
This guy never talked about going buddyless...why state that he did. But the comment was brought up by Soggy that there NEVER is situation where ditching weights is appropriate. That proper planning negates this. That is just wrong. S$^T happens. The whole DIR concept is based on this. Plan for contingencies. Redundant systems. But yet this whole argument ignores that fact that a buddy separation can occur. Tell me that you are a DIR diver who has never drifted, separated, lost, or whatever, "your buddies", then I will call you a liar...in a nice sort of way. And, as I have posted in this thread before, the situation in which you will lose contact with your team will very likely be an emergency situation. Fine, depend on the team. But plan on your team not being there....or you not being with your team. That is a higher probability than an regulator failure or whatever other contigency you have trained over an over for. Consider this....perhaps there just is something new to learn. Are you saying that no DIR diver has ever gone into rough surf, bad viz, swift current, lost a buddy, been lost by a buddy, ...give me a break. If you only dove SWEET water, you'd all be pussies and I know that is not the case, so don't say you don't go into questionable water. Unless you dive into a placid lake, there are situations that need to be dealt with. Quit expousing theory and talk reality. Again...S**T happens and this guy has discussed a situation that could happen to any of you. Why cram him into a non-DIR forum when he came to you to ask a question. He has done it reasonably, responsibly and with respect. You have not given him the same. Time to self relfect and make this a better forum. If you look in this forum there are a lot of non-DIR divers looking to see if this is the place for them to belong. It doesn't look too friendly to me. Time for a change.

I don't see any reason for changing forum policy.

When you shop something you look at it, try it and if it fits you buy it, if it doesn't fit you go to another shop. The same thing is here: You ask and you get the answer and the explanation. If you like it take it, if you don't forget about it. Simple as that.

The guy asked the question and got the answer complying with DIR pholosophy and the explanation and the extended explanation how this fitted to DIR system. But he had a need to discuss why it was not good and why the system was not OK because of that. IMO this is not the place for such discussion.

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

At the risk of being banned...just would like to get comments on this...not arguing, just trying to clear up a few things in my own mind, just asking a simple question. This was posted recently:

"The DIR answer for weight belt placement is over the strap diving wet and under the strap diving dry."

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but in one of the first posts, it was stated that DIR recommends under the strap ...? Which is it?

look guys, as I've said before, I've been diving for a long time, I have had a number of experiences that sometimes keep me awake at night. I'm not trying to put anyone down, hurt anyone's feelings - just concerned that there are people who read these forums and take a lot of this stuff as gospel...they make a wrong decision and die. I don't post the # of "logged dives" I have, or anything else...I hesitate to mention that I run a very successful all-volunteer water search and rescue squad and my group has been credited with saving MANY lives. I have several thousand dives in much less than pre-mo conditions. I dove in search of the CSS Hunley off Charleston, numerous shipwrecks, many river and open ocean dives. I recently was awarded the highest honor that can be given in the state of South Carolina - the Order of the Silver Crescent - an award of recognition for volunteer services to the citizens of SC. This was primarily for the work I do with search and rescue. None of this to brag...I never mentioned it before...but I just want you to understand I'm no amateur and here just to stir up trouble. I honestly care about people and insuring their safety. Pulling dead people out of the water is a bad thing... Just please think, take responsibilty for your own safety and live. Sorry if I've upset anyone...didn't mean too.

 

[MonkSeal]

I'm not trying to put anyone down, hurt anyone's feelings - just concerned that there are people who read these forums and take a lot of this stuff as gospel...they make a wrong decision and die.

That's why GUE instructors rarely participate in such discussions. You can read (from time to time) in this forum something like: "Don't take this advice as is, take a class, talk to DIR instructor." Partial things pulled of the context (system) hardly can make one's diving better or safer. DIR promotes learning complete system and philosophy from qualified instructors.

 

[Nomaster]

"Welcome to our new DIR forum...
Just a few guidelines...
1) No trolling! This is not the place for agency bashing! This is especially not a place for bashing DIR divers. Refer to What is Trolling for any questions about what constitutes a troll. . .
6) The answers in this forum are member's best attempts to answer questions within, and according the DIR diving philosophy. If you wish to give a non-DIR answer, please do not post it in this forum. If you do not wish your question to be limited to DIR answer, please ask it in another applicable forum."
__________________
Just read the article on trolling.
An eye opener, but don't think I've ever been guilty.
On page 5 of this thread I asked where we can talk
what ifs. I received no response.
We are not allowed to question anything within this
forum, and I know that members of the forum travel,
so if an outsider were to have a question that might
question a DIR answer, where are we most likely to
find a DIR ear who is willing to discuss rather than
repeat verbatim.
When I wish to learn the DIR philosophy, I can read
here or elsewhere on the web, where does one go to
discuss?

Tom

 

[MonkSeal]

When I wish to learn the DIR philosophy, I can read
here or elsewhere on the web, where does one go to
discuss?

Tom

You'll not learn DIR philosophy from any place on the web

IMO this forum in not a place for discussing about DIR philosophy but a place for exchanging advices that comply with DIR philosophy or to discuss if and why is something (equipment, procedure, anything) DIR or not DIR.

 

[Soggy]

NoVizWhiz,

I think we all understand and appreciate your perspective. You've also got to understand that the advice given here only works in the context of a unified, practiced, and trained team of divers. The idea of a buddy loss is completely unconscionable within the context of a DIR diving team. No one I know objects to the concept of self-sufficient...in fact one must be extremely self sufficient in order to be a useful member of a team. However, I can honestly say, since I've started diving with the team concept, I've never lost or been lost by my buddies. It just doesn't happen if you don't allow it to. Even in a current, you are *both* in the current. In poor vis, you just stay close enough to maintain touch contact if necessary (how do you think cave divers train?). With bright, focused HID lights, you can see *something* even in the worst of vis, even if it's just a dim glow.

We plan the dive together, we descend together, we dive together, and we come up together. Anything less is *not an option.*