Weighting,Stupid Question !!!!

[jonnythan]

I agree....but NOONE is perfect - people (even DIR divers) make mistakes...this is about how to wear weights. IF you, in any eventuality need to ditch, weights under a crotch strap is not the correct configuration.

You might believe so, and we obviously gave you many reasons why it's not the case, but in the end I can just say that this is the DIR forum and your last sentence, therefore, is completely incorrect.

 

[jonnythan]

http://www.divetekadventures.com/Videos/ooa[1].mov

Here's a neat little video that shows a completely typical OOG emergency in a DIR team. Notice that the diver drops his reg, then signals his buddy, then has a new regulator in his mouth. This all happens within the span of less than 3 seconds. If you and your buddy are farther away than this, or the signal doesn't happen this quickly, or your buddy doesn't deploy the reg that quickly, something is seriously wrong.

If you're 1000 feet back in a cave and you run out of gas, you can't just ditch weights. If you're at 200 feet looking at 2 hours of deco, you can't just ditch weights. DIR divers are trained to deal with all of these emergencies in all of those situations - and if a cave diver can handle a proper gas donation in a cave, a properly trained OW diver can handle it in open water.

That gas exchange is exactly how OOA's look in a GUE trained team. It's quick, smooth, and *right*. The OOA diver has the confidence that his buddy will get him the right gas in the right reg quickly and easily, and any major problems getting that reg over can be dealt with in any number of ways and should never result in the OOA diver not getting gas.

Watch the video. Then watch it again, and again. That's just how it works. Getting out of air is never ever a cause to hit the surface.

The heart attack scenario is also dealt with at depth, and the seizure is beyond the pale. Do the same thing you get trained to do with a toxing diver. I don't think anyone gets taught in Nitrox course "if you're about to black out, just ditch your weights" because that's suicide.

 

[novadiver]

You're in 35 ft of water, you're mid 50's with no history of medical problems, you suddenly feel very weak, dizzy, short of breath, severe ringing in your ears, sparkling lights begin to appear before your eyes and a crushing pain in your chest...within a matter of seconds you're barely able to function mentally or phsically, your arms feel like 100 lb weights...your last thought is you'd read on the board that dropping your weight belt (a mere flick of your hand at your waist) is NOT an option...you pass out and the regulator falls out of your mouth...you're now unconscious on the bottom and your last chance of resching the surface is gone.....

Ah! inflater button?

 

[jonnythan]

Ah! inflater button?

Lol

Score!

[still not DIR.. use that last little bit of consciousness to signal your buddy.]

 

[novadiver]

Lol

Score!

[still not DIR.. use that last little bit of consciousness to signal your buddy.]

Either way , I want my weight with me when I hit the surface.That way my unconcious head is above water! And my weighted lower half is keeping it out of the water because I kept my weight belt on.

 

[minnediver]

I am sorry but I see no need to ditch weights. Lets say you don't dive DIR, you dive solo or you can't reach your buddy. You have something happen during the dive that would prompt a direct ascent to the surface (obviously o/w and not a deco dive). Aren't you neutrally buoyant during the dive? If so by swimming up a few feet doesn't the basic laws of physics take over and you are going to get a screaming ride to the surface without ditching the weights?

Now I am going to say something evil here but....

Even PADI promotes the option to start swimming to the surface and exhausting air from the BC as you go. It is one of their 5 low/out of air emergency ascents. Yes they list ditching your weights as well, which is an option (and still is for DIR divers) but is extremely discouraged.

If we want to list every possible medical condition or the fact that if every single piece of gear fails on you and your buddy then go ahead. What if's go nowhere, the real problem is peoples lack of good judgement and responsible diving practices. Unfortunatly the most under used and under promoted piece of dive gear out there is something that is actually free - the human brain.

 

[jonnythan]

You're neutrally buoyant during the dive thanks to the air in your BC. Let's say you're diving to 100 feet in a 7mm wetsuit. If you lose all the air in your BC at the beginning of the dive, you could very well be too negative to be able to swim it up.

 

[jonnythan]

If we want to list every possible medical condition or the fact that if every single piece of gear fails on you and your buddy then go ahead. What if's go nowhere, the real problem is peoples lack of good judgement and responsible diving practices. Unfortunatly the most under used and under promoted piece of dive gear out there is something that is actually free - the human brain.

Isn't it doing it right to evaluate failure modes to the fullest extent possible, and plan and train around them? I agree it's silly to plan for things that are virtually impossible, but you still have to consider them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Another question - if you are wearing a belt under a crotch strap, you're trying to get out of your gear before entering the boat (after a dive), isn't it hard to get the belt off first?

Not at all ... I did it twice yesterday, in fact, before boarding an inflatable. In a standard DIR rig you clip your rig to the tether line, release your waist strap, and release the crotch strap. The weight belt then comes off just as easily as it would for any other rig.

I was always taught that weights were the last thing to go on, first thing to come off...

Traditional teaching methods teach what they do based on an assumption about the type of gear you will be wearing and the type of skills you are likely to have learned. DIR teaches you how to do things based a different gear configuration and an approach to diving that differs from "traditional". Both are valid, given the right set of circumstances.

As you adapt to using different gear configurations, learn different methods, and expand your skills, you can (and often will) develop different approaches to a great many aspects of your diving regimen. What matters is that the approach you use be well considered (based on your skills and gear), potential problems be anticipated, and that you have practiced using your gear and your skills to the point where you are confident in your ability to handle these problems.

It would be erroneous to assume that the folks who developed the DIR system didn't think through the very scenarios being discussed in this thread. The combination of gear, buddy skills, and situational awareness one learns through even their introductory class (Fundamentals) is designed to teach you not only how to get yourself out of these situations, but more importantly how to keep yourself from getting into them in the first place.

That is one area where the DIR training approach sets itself apart from traditional training methods.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

Please re-read what you just wrote - "evaluate failure modes to the fullest extent possible and train around them"...one more time -my point is, you leave the belt outside the crotch strap in case you, for ANY reason, at ANY depth need to ditch. I agree the best scenario is to handle an emergency situation with the buddy approach...and you can't discount the "what ifs"...many a person has died because a specific event "could never happen to me."

On my friend with epilepsy.....some of you continue to read what you want, not what I say ...again my point was he had his FIRST seizure with no warning...if it had happened underwater at 30 ft (average dive depth for us) doubt he would have suffered any injury...